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Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

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Re: Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

#101

Post by foolrush »

mathgeek wrote: post #30
JordanFarmer wrote: post #29

This is a sad effect of national media attention (Click bait and headline bait). I watch the news sometimes and wonder if we'd all be better off if it didn't exist... Obligatory mention that There were more murders in Chicago this week and it gets no media headlines.

News that is free to consume is the same as any other free product: the reader/viewer is the product.

Many countries with a tremendous backbone in journalistic research have done pretty well using public funded news.

The BBC and it’s ilk was a beacon for years. The trope is exhausting.

Re: Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

#102

Post by cheez »

cheez wrote: post #62
throwaway082729 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right wing people seem to be ok with a dictatorship if it gets them what they want. Left wingers are less likely to open guns so this point is moot. Also what chance do these guns have against the army's artillery.

The point is not that the populace can win. It's that the populace can make it difficult enough for them to give up. And just FYI, most government murder of their own citizens has been done by left wing governments in the last century. Want to guess what Nazi was short for? National Socialist Party. Want to guess the first step of murderous left wing governments? Gun confiscation. Am I saying that the US government i…

Curious why this was flagged?

Re: Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

#103

Post by XorNot »

cheez wrote: post #67
XorNot wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Afgahnistan, AK-47s are so common that the US has air-striked weddings due to celebratory gunfire. Which should probably tell you something about the assumption about the accessibility of the guns, and the likely outcome of your fantasy there...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/afghan-government-shut-... https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/pakistan/pakistan-to-joi... https://apnews.com/c77e9e7ec5b1490ab7394f0dcc64588b Whether you like it or not, the US lost in Vietnam, they lost in Afghanistan though I haven't kept up on Iraq, reading a few books about the topic showed me that the main impetus for leaving is that it is hopeless for the US to "win". Edit:…

The US is/was not the local government in Afgahnistan, Iraq or Vietnam. Nor has it ever had a clear definition of what "victory" actually looks like in those places (nor any policy-level understanding or interest in the local culture and political dynamics that might enable it to develop one).

But it's worth noting that no victory was achieved by the insurgent forces that ever lasted in any of those places: the US, so long as it maintained the military will to stay, could bomb and destroy the insurgents indefinitely. It just couldn't tolerate the political cost of why it's people were being sent to die "over there", and a public which was and is dissatisified with foreign civilian casualties inflicted by US military missions.

Re: Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

#104

Post by empath75 »

Juliate wrote: post #44
fit2rule wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible to radicalise anyone. It is not about politics at all. You can convince even the hippiest left-wing peaceniks into terrible activity. All you have to do is fixate the subject on either side of a dialectic argument involving force, violence, duress .. injustice. Or even better, all of the above. The root of all radicalisation is individual responsibility.

Do you have evidence of a number of "leftist" activists that have approximately the same count of murders as right-wingers/white supremacists have? I mean, something to balance and show some equivalence? You don't. Because the single biggest real threat to any US citizen today is an other US citizen that can grab a weapon at will. And it happens that in the overwhelming number of cases, the person that becomes a mass…

Leftists have obviously been radicalized in the past and they have a large body count in places where there have been left wing insurgencies and revolutions, but that is not what’s happening in the us right now.

Re: Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

#105

Post by ChrisLomont »

acdha wrote: post #96
ChrisLomont wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next sentence after the one you quoted: " Still, there had been ample debate in the lower federal courts and political discussion over whether the Second Amendment provides an individual right to keep and bear arms, versus a collective right belonging to the states to maintain militias." It's also the meaning more clearly laid out in the 45+ states constitutions explicitly naming a personal right, since they mode…

Yes, especially the next sentence you didn’t include: > Pre-Heller, the vast majority of lower federal courts had embraced the collective right theory. Similarly, it would be useful if you discussed the reasons why the founders chose not to include any of the proposed individual rights language in the second amendment draft. It was a deliberate choice not to and there’s plenty of historical context available.

All of the Bill of Rights are individual rights, crafted to address complaints of the states about individual protections, most notably by the Anti-Federalists.

If, as you claim, there was not individual rights in previous drafts, it would be useful if you addressed why in the ratified Amendment they did add it. Because if it’s as you claim, that is pretty solid evidence they wanted the individual rights.

Also, why did the vast majority of the states make it abundantly clear when making their constitutions, modeled on the Federal one?

Re: Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

#106

Post by TeMPOraL »

Ygg2 wrote: post #56
amelius wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ultimately it's all because of ads. If we all had to pay for our news, then we'd be more cautious and reluctant about clickbait headlines. And media would not be in a race to the bottom, affecting news quality.

I doubt this. Reason clickbait works is because it's more attention grabbing. It's more attention grabbing because it appeals to human innate fears. And even if clickbait is banned and subscription mandatory, media would be in a race to the bottom. Just a slightly different one.

Reason clickbait works is because it is needed to drive page views. In a subscription model, media sites would have an incentive to put out stories that are interesting beyond the first page view.

Re: Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

#107

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #89
MobileVet wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws yes, substantive laws... debatable. More significant measures like requiring a license or limiting magazine capacity are somehow characterized as over reach. Would be interested to hear how that is rationalized.

Because we take the right to bear arms very seriously in the US. In our constitution that right is enumerated second, just after the one about freedom of speech and religion. Licensing is a mechanism of control over who can and cannot exercise this right, and such mechanisms are often abused to suppress minorities and dissidents, which is contrary to the reason the right is enumerated in the first place. Similarly th…

Please note that 'FFA' in the above should be 'FFL'. Chalk it up to an early morning brain fart.

Re: Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

#108

Post by Fellshard »

platz wrote: post #94

> on average, mass killings involving firearms occur approximately every two weeks in the US This seems significantly higher than what I'd think. Do most mass killings not make the news? How is this defined?

It's generally an issue that a person's definition carves out instances that are not useful to their desired narrative. A consistent definition is required when discussing the topic, and unfortunately the definition practically needs to accompany its use simply because so many disparate definitions are used.

Re: Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

#109

Post by cheez »

XorNot wrote: post #103
cheez wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/afghan-government-shut-... https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/pakistan/pakistan-to-joi... https://apnews.com/c77e9e7ec5b1490ab7394f0dcc64588b Whether you like it or not, the US lost in Vietnam, they lost in Afghanistan though I haven't kept up on Iraq, reading a few books about the topic showed me that the main impetus for leaving is that it is hopeless for the US to "win". Edit:…

The US is/was not the local government in Afgahnistan, Iraq or Vietnam. Nor has it ever had a clear definition of what "victory" actually looks like in those places (nor any policy-level understanding or interest in the local culture and political dynamics that might enable it to develop one). But it's worth noting that no victory was achieved by the insurgent forces that ever lasted in any of those places: the US, s…

Well, ok. Bombing the shit out of everyone is a possibility but would lose major political points. No allies left after that move.

I suppose the closest analogy is Syria but even there, there is so much proxy war going on that it's impossible to discern the reality of the situation.

Bottom line is that it is in the best interest of the political elite to avoid angering a non trivial portion of an armed population. There is no such restriction on a disarmed population.

Re: Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings (2015)

#110

Post by anigbrowl »

JordanFarmer wrote: post #29

This is a sad effect of national media attention (Click bait and headline bait). I watch the news sometimes and wonder if we'd all be better off if it didn't exist... Obligatory mention that There were more murders in Chicago this week and it gets no media headlines.

There were more murders in Chicago this week

Oops, you forgot to change the capitalization on your copypasta.

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