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DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

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Re: DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

#101

Post by xenocyon »

MegaButts wrote: post #82
gandutraveler wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use doordash 2-3 times a week. It's convenient and cheaper than Uber eats with dashpass. Just remember that if your too amount is less than 6$ it doesn't go to the drivers. It's better to too them with cash

You don't feel upset about how they were, in my opinion, defrauding you and the driver of the tip money? After I learned about what they were doing with tips I decided not to use them again, and considering how much competition there is I really haven't lost anything of value. This isn't meant to be a triggering comment. I'm genuinely curious to learn about other people's reactions to DoorDash's former tipping system…

Personally: having learned of their scummy practices, I will not be supporting DoorDash or Instacart ever again, regardless of whether they change policy now in response to being exposed.

Why so unforgiving? Because you can't deter unethical behavior by merely asking for a perpetrator to discontinue the unethical behavior if/when exposed. The expected value of a penalty needs to exceed the financial reward of the behavior it is meant to punish. Furthermore, I don't trust companies who are likely to be unethical the moment someone isn't looking.

Re: DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

#102

Post by tootie »

Marsymars wrote: post #94
mm202018 wrote: post #62

I’m so confused by DoorDash’s sudden rise. I think I may have used it once. What is separating DoorDash from UberEats, Postmates, Grubhub etc?

> I’m so confused by DoorDash’s sudden rise. I think I may have used it once. What is separating DoorDash from UberEats, Postmates, Grubhub etc? Network effects are pretty strong. Locally, I don't know anyone who uses anything other than SkipTheDishes.

So weird. I never even heard of that one. I've been using Seamless forever which was bought by GrubHub years ago but it has a strong brand in NYC.

Re: DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

#103

Post by taktoa »

Marsymars wrote: post #94
mm202018 wrote: post #62

I’m so confused by DoorDash’s sudden rise. I think I may have used it once. What is separating DoorDash from UberEats, Postmates, Grubhub etc?

> I’m so confused by DoorDash’s sudden rise. I think I may have used it once. What is separating DoorDash from UberEats, Postmates, Grubhub etc? Network effects are pretty strong. Locally, I don't know anyone who uses anything other than SkipTheDishes.

How are there network effects in delivery apps? It's a bipartite graph, and the number of restaurant companies is tiny compared to the number of users.

Re: DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

#104

Post by beefalo »

taktoa wrote: post #103
Marsymars wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m so confused by DoorDash’s sudden rise. I think I may have used it once. What is separating DoorDash from UberEats, Postmates, Grubhub etc? Network effects are pretty strong. Locally, I don't know anyone who uses anything other than SkipTheDishes.

How are there network effects in delivery apps? It's a bipartite graph, and the number of restaurant companies is tiny compared to the number of users.

Once an app reaches critical mass for a location, the restaurants all go where the users are.

Re: DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

#105

Post by lavezzi »

pgrote wrote: post #43

Perhaps keeping it separate is a good thing technically. DoorDash app and website are a dumpster fire with usability and bugs galore. The issue is as a user is if you bring this up to DoorDash support they have no internal process for handling reported issues with the app and website and letting the development team know.

Sounds exactly like the Cash app.

Re: DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

#106

Post by ericmason »

sanj wrote: post #97
jamiequint wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't "defrauding the drivers of tip money" they were normalizing the variance in payments across deliveries by not directly paying the drivers tips and instead guaranteeing a minimum payment amount which was above the delivery fee. Once they modify their system and move to a system where drivers get 100% of the tips the drivers will probably see approximately the same payouts on average, just with higher vari…

Tip pooling makes sense because a restaurant experience is composed of the work of multiple players in the front/back of the house. DoorDash drivers don’t rely on other drivers. So why should a good driver compensate for the poor tips of a bad one?

Maybe because the tip has at least as much to do with the customer as it does the driver.

Re: DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

#107

Post by r1nkgrl »

aianus wrote: post #100
jamiequint wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't "defrauding the drivers of tip money" they were normalizing the variance in payments across deliveries by not directly paying the drivers tips and instead guaranteeing a minimum payment amount which was above the delivery fee. Once they modify their system and move to a system where drivers get 100% of the tips the drivers will probably see approximately the same payouts on average, just with higher vari…

The entire point of the tipping system is to have a high variance. The promise, but not guarantee, of tips is what is supposed to incentivize better service.

But in the case of the DoorDash, if you tip using the app, you tip long before you know what the service will be.

It's like walking blindfolded into a restaurant and putting your tip in the hostesses hand before you even see any of the staff, or have any indication of service.

Re: DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

#108

Post by aiddun »

tootie wrote: post #102
Marsymars wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m so confused by DoorDash’s sudden rise. I think I may have used it once. What is separating DoorDash from UberEats, Postmates, Grubhub etc? Network effects are pretty strong. Locally, I don't know anyone who uses anything other than SkipTheDishes.

So weird. I never even heard of that one. I've been using Seamless forever which was bought by GrubHub years ago but it has a strong brand in NYC.

+1 for Seamless in the city, at least within my family/close friends. Might be because NYC has a strong fast delivery network within most restaurants and doesn't truly need a decentralized delivery network. The big draw to these apps to most of my friends has been the delivery of previously undeliverable food (Chipotle, McDonalds etc).

Re: DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

#109

Post by jonknee »

SilasX wrote: post #93
MegaButts wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They make a lot of profit I have always heard food delivery as a business is a great way to lose money. Do you have any examples of companies doing it profitably?

Every pizza chain.

They make money selling pizza (super high margin), not at delivery.

Re: DoorDash Buying Caviar from Square for $410M

#110

Post by wpietri »

notyourday wrote: post #71
pradn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New types of restaurants are popping up: 1) Ghost kitchens that only serve via delivery apps. You can save on rent by setting it up in an area with no foot-traffic. You can also get economies of scale. 2) Restaurants with dedicated entrances for delivery drivers. Baar Baar in NYC has a separate place where delivery workers can wait. In other restaurants, they have to wait in the limited dining area. One hopes that th…

> 1) Ghost kitchens that only serve via delivery apps. You can save on rent by setting it up in an area with no foot-traffic. You can also get economies of scale. You can't. This is the kind of a mistake that all first time entrepreneurs make. Delivery costs too much money. Logistics of getting your labor force to your kitchen is a nightmare. > 2) Restaurants with dedicated entrances for delivery drivers. Baar Baar i…

I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted. A beloved restaurant near my house is closing down, and the owner is pretty clear about how ugly the economics of delivery are: https://missionlocal.org/2019/05/custards-last-stand-mission...
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