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Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

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Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#101

Post by la_barba »

hestipod wrote: post #100
la_barba wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your budget?

Right now honestly zero, unless I came across the deal of a lifetime that I believed I could justify responsibly long term. The film idea was fleeting and not realistic. If it becomes possible I am hoping to get a used full frame body with a good low light capability, like a 6d and a couple good lenses. A shutter replacement would be a likely need one day but can be found for a reasonable cost. But IQ and features wo…

Looks like you have a good plan there :)

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#102

Post by hestipod »

souprock wrote: post #78
zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

I would like that "simple auto-mode" to be enabled with the power switch. When I turn the camera on, I might not have time to mess with settings. That mode should turn off bit by bit as I make manual adjustments. If I adjust ISO and exposure, then the camera is left with aperture and shutter speed under auto control. If I turn the focus ring, then the camera stops doing autofocus.

Unless I am misunderstanding your wants you can already do that. Leave the camera's main control dial on Auto for the instant shot or P(rogram)...with appropriate auto ISO settings if so desired...to meet the requirements of your second sentence. When you power on you will be in the chosen mode. Some cameras/lenses do allow AF override but its a simple flick of a switch to turn MF on if not. This stuff is where buttons, switches, and dials outshine menus any day.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#103

Post by [deleted] »

la_barba wrote: post #33
tristor wrote: post #24

This isn't a surprise. Canon has lagged behind Sony on the sensor side of things for ages. Nikon was also lagging, but decided to do the right thing which was buy its sensors from Sony. For full-frame DSLR camera bodies, Nikon is far superior to Canon currently and has been for a long time. Canon has primarily survived off brand loyalty with professional photographers driven by the extremely high quality lenses they…

While it may appear so from a retail consumer standpoint, I don't think Canon is lagging behind in tech from an IP and R&D standpoint. The thing is they make the sensor themselves, and the fabs and tooling is super super expensive. Canons MO is to extract as much profit as possible from a pre-existing process before moving over to something new. They already have BSI tech.. they already have the means to create a 100…

[deleted]

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#104

Post by [deleted] »

hestipod wrote: post #69
mktmkr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to use the tiny screen. Mirrorless cameras generally come with a large display. I almost always use the display on my Olympus because it's easier and I don't look like I have a machine on my face (this was also an important advantage of old view cameras with the focus screen on top, like the Hasselblad 500). If you want, you can attach a much larger screen to your mirrorless camera, they just use HDMI…

I meant specifically when using a viewfinder on a mirrorless camera, it means looking at a tiny LCD/OLED screen inside an eyepiece that simulates the classic view vs through glass lenses/prisms for an actual optical view. I like optical viewfinders not little screens in tubes.

[deleted]

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#105

Post by souprock »

hestipod wrote: post #102
souprock wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like that "simple auto-mode" to be enabled with the power switch. When I turn the camera on, I might not have time to mess with settings. That mode should turn off bit by bit as I make manual adjustments. If I adjust ISO and exposure, then the camera is left with aperture and shutter speed under auto control. If I turn the focus ring, then the camera stops doing autofocus.

Unless I am misunderstanding your wants you can already do that. Leave the camera's main control dial on Auto for the instant shot or P(rogram)...with appropriate auto ISO settings if so desired...to meet the requirements of your second sentence. When you power on you will be in the chosen mode. Some cameras/lenses do allow AF override but its a simple flick of a switch to turn MF on if not. This stuff is where butto…

I don't want to have a main control dial or equivalent menu. It could be in the wrong position at power-on when I am in a hurry. I want the camera to always be fully auto at power-on, and I don't want to have to touch a main control dial to go into manual mode. Moving the settings should be enough.

Aside from focus, there are 4 user settings (ISO,shutter,exposure,aperture) to control 3 physical settings (ISO,shutter,aperture). It is thus overspecified. On power-on, the camera should control all of that. As soon as I have changed 3 user settings, the 4th is also determined and there is nothing left for automatic control.

If I change less than 3 user settings, the camera should automatically adjust the remaining settings. If I change 3 user settings, then the camera is in manual mode and the 4th user setting is determined by the other 3. If I then change a 4th user setting, there is a conflict which might be resolved by using the most recently adjusted 3 user settings.

Going back to auto mode is rare enough that it can be done by flipping the power switch twice, off then on. A menu item is also fine for this, but not needed.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#106

Post by tomatocracy »

la_barba wrote: post #93
tomatocracy wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what has really hurt Canon is their failure so far in the mirrorless segment. As others have said, for quite a while they've relied in large part on high quality glass and people's glass investments within the EF ecosystem to drive people to that and retain them within it. It's worked well - they are "good enough" on the sensor side and have also won (or at least not lost) on things which professionals care a…

Well, the EOS R and RP are entry level cameras. They have yet to release a professional series mirrorless camera. Comparatively, the 1st gen Sony mirrorless systems were pretty bad. They had tiny bodies that overheated, had poor battery life, and had slow unreliable AF. Ofcource, The EOS R and RP won't be compared to Sony's 1st gen, which is very fair, but I don't think canon has failed in this market.

I'd say they haven't succeeded yet - and the signs aren't great. They needed to produce a knockout offering with the EOS R and RP I think - they were so far behind that unless they did, they would struggle to build market share. I don't know how many more chances the market will give them to get it right, sadly.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#107

Post by [deleted] »

souprock wrote: post #105
hestipod wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I am misunderstanding your wants you can already do that. Leave the camera's main control dial on Auto for the instant shot or P(rogram)...with appropriate auto ISO settings if so desired...to meet the requirements of your second sentence. When you power on you will be in the chosen mode. Some cameras/lenses do allow AF override but its a simple flick of a switch to turn MF on if not. This stuff is where butto…

I don't want to have a main control dial or equivalent menu. It could be in the wrong position at power-on when I am in a hurry. I want the camera to always be fully auto at power-on, and I don't want to have to touch a main control dial to go into manual mode. Moving the settings should be enough. Aside from focus, there are 4 user settings (ISO,shutter,exposure,aperture) to control 3 physical settings (ISO,shutter,…

[deleted]

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#108

Post by LegitShady »

mdorazio wrote: post #51
jdietrich wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge investment in software and hardware for an almost non-existent user base. Most current DSLRs already have Wifi or a Wifi option; those that don't can be fitted with a Wifi SD card. It turns out that hardly anyone actually uses that feature, because Wifi transfer rates are generally a more problematic bottleneck than the inconvenience of pulling the SD card and putting it into a card reader. The main users…

This is akin to people who said "why would you want computer-like features on your phone? Everyone who's willing to pay $500+ for a phone already has a laptop!" A very large number of would-be content creators (not just Instagram, either - YouTubers also) want the higher image quality, dynamic range, optical zoom, interchangeable lenses, etc. of a full-body camera, but don't want to deal with the clunky interfaces an…

All the serious guys are already using pro equipment - DSLRs with interchangeable lenses.

And they all have to cut and edit their video, because thats what they do.

So being able to edit on a 2" screen when you care about quality to the point where you're getting a DSLR doesn't make any sense, so it isn't implemented.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#109

Post by [deleted] »

la_barba wrote: post #86
rbritton wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canon's professional line has been lacking for years in the high ISO sensor performance. Their saving grace has been their lenses, which are still magnitudes better than the competition. That said, third party lensmakers like Sigma and Tamron have really been getting better in recent years, and the premium for Canon glass isn't always justifiable.

Can you specify what you mean by high ISO performance? Do you mean read-noise or do you mean DR or something else? Canon is very competitive in read-noise and DR. Yes AFAIK they don't have dual-gain in their professional series, but the difference is not "magnitudes better" FWICT. Read Noise: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_ADU.htm#Canon%20EOS... DR: http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm#Canon%20EOS%…

[deleted]

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#110

Post by hestipod »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #70
zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

An artmaking tool like the DSLR will still outlive Instagram. There will be a reaction against oversharing, ad-adjacency and other social media that leads to its demise, but nobody will oppose the mechanical, mirror viewfinder for any political reason.

I don't know...reading around it seems the mirrorless fans that dominate photography discussions REALLY hate mechanical shutters and optical viewfinders with some passionate fury. I feel like an old man shouting at clouds when saying I prefer DSLR.
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