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Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

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Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#101

Post by tjr225 »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #67
xwdv wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the world were a fine place worth fighting for, maybe you’d have a point. But increasingly, I just look around, see the news, see the social media, and think why bother? Humanity will never be anything more than this. Things seem to be wrapping up, don’t have kids, don’t try to save the world, just savor what is left till it’s gone. In the coming decades we will begin to see a loss in the knowledge of mankind, as…

Do you live on the same planet as me? The world is an incredible place and gets better every day! I look at my children and their experiences growing up and it’s far better than mine ever were. If I had the choice I’d be born today.

I tend to be a pretty pessimistic person and I happen to agree with you.

Regardless of how hopeless our current position might seem to some, there is an absurd amount of sheer panic and terror that you just happen to be exposed to because you are on the internet.

It is a wild gnashing of teeth with little productive thought taking place.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#102

Post by mikeash »

krapp wrote: post #98
mikeash wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re going straight from “we don’t really know if something is happening” to “it’s too late anyway so why bother” without going through the troublesome “we should try to stop this” phase.

Because it is too late. We're realizing now that it was too late decades ago.

It’s never too late to decrease the damage being done.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#103

Post by Diederich »

benjamoon wrote: post #93

The range between the min and max temps for the last 100 years is under 1°C globally. For the last 1,000 years it's just over 1°C (from wolfram alpha at least). It's clear that temps are slowly rising, but the constant reports of extreme weather seem at odds with the data to me. Is 1°C over 1,000 years really doing all this? When I read articles about the weather I have to remind myself what the data says. If I didn'…

I understand where you're coming from.

I think that the most immediate risks associated with climate change is not sea level rise, but it's extreme weather. We're seeing this in spades already.

It intuitively makes sense at some level: adding more energy to a somewhat chaotic/somewhat stable system (weather over the past 1000 years) will increase the chaos and lessen the stability.

To me, this article about heat moving toward Greenland is less of a cause/risk and more of a symptom. The fucked up jetstreams, caused by a relatively small global increase in temperature, is allowing this heat to move somewhere it would almost never be able to move previously.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#104

Post by NeedMoreTea »

newintellectual wrote: post #39

Two things. First, anybody ever think about why an ice covered body of land was called Greenland ? Here's a clue, it used to be a lot warmer and green. This is nothing new. Ice was a disaster for the settlers of Greenland. And this: "Scientists already know that the Greenland ice sheet is melting. But the hidden heat source originating from deep inside the Earth partially responsible for that melting has been a myste…

The indigenous Inuit call it Kalaallit Nunaat ("land of the Kalaallit").

The Saga of Erik the Red from the 13th century tells us Grœnland was chosen as misleading advertising to get people to relocate there.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#105

Post by NeedMoreTea »

andrewstuart wrote: post #68
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individual action cannot convert to zero carbon generation, make treaties, implement carbon taxes, require impact labelling or ban unsustainable methods. Governments are the only ones with the necessary leverage. Even if we have to wait for some country to elect a Green party government, or there be enough XR style demonstrations disrupting the economy that they have to act.

All those certainties need to be loosened up. New ideas are needed. Clearly government has failed to solve this. And when there's a problem that needs solving, and the current 'solution' ain't working, well you'd be crazy to stick with that being 'the solution' wouldn't you?

You don't think an alternative to government action will take longer to find? Or are you advocating revolution?

What are your new ideas?

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#106

Post by adrianN »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #100
adrianN wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Build enough renewables to replace all fossil fuels and then some, use any extra energy to suck carbon out of the atmosphere and bury it. Plant trees and turn them into charcoal. If you're very fancy you can do some more risky geoengineering.

> Build enough renewables to replace all fossil fuels and then some Might work if you throw lots and lots of nuclear reactors into the mix. It's less dangerous than most people think, and is most likely the most efficient way to amortise the energy shortage induced recession. (Renewables still need massive investment, I'm just saying they likely won't be enough.)

There are studies for Germany that show that just renewables can do it. I assume in other countries it's similar. I'm not opposed to nuclear, but building nuclear plants takes way too long. We have twenty years give or take to become carbon neutral, there doesn't seem to be enough time to fight the legal battles you have to win before you can even start building nuclear plants.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#107

Post by xwdv »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #67
xwdv wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the world were a fine place worth fighting for, maybe you’d have a point. But increasingly, I just look around, see the news, see the social media, and think why bother? Humanity will never be anything more than this. Things seem to be wrapping up, don’t have kids, don’t try to save the world, just savor what is left till it’s gone. In the coming decades we will begin to see a loss in the knowledge of mankind, as…

Do you live on the same planet as me? The world is an incredible place and gets better every day! I look at my children and their experiences growing up and it’s far better than mine ever were. If I had the choice I’d be born today.

What experiences are that?

Right now I see some fat kids with necks bent at 90 degrees staring mindlessly into a tablet watching some YouTube video of other people playing video games and shouting nonsense. Or babies and toddlers watching whole playlists of AI generated crap trying to get ad revenue.

These kids are not getting a good start in life. Wouldn’t be surprised if the end of their lives doesn’t look much different from the beginning.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#108

Post by tzs »

ergothus wrote: post #51
pizza wrote: post #37

I recall reading a CNN scrolling ticker headline about the current European heatwave that said ~5% of European homes/offices have AC. The DOE says 3/4 of American homes have AC, and furthermore, AC uses 6% of all electricity generated in the United States, quite staggering imo and a lot more than I would have expected. Without AC, a lot of America would just be too unbearable to support some major communities. [0] ht…

One thing about human life that is remarkable is the dramatic range of climates we can survive in, compared to other species. Makes us forget that it is entirely possible to have climates that we CAN'T survive in (and even more that we wouldn't thrive in).

> One thing about human life that is remarkable is the dramatic range of climates we can survive in, compared to other species.

We are pretty impressive compared to most other species. One that holds it own, though, is the Yakutian horse [1], a native horse breed of Siberia.

They are kept outside year-round, dealing with temperatures of up to 38℃ (100℉) in the summer, and as low as -70℃ (-94℉) in the winter. That's a range of 108℃ (194℉).

Of course their human owners also handle those temperatures, but they need buildings and clothes and fuel to do it. They couldn't do it standing around naked in a field like the horses can.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakutian_horse

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#109

Post by Gibbon1 »

adrianN wrote: post #106
loup-vaillant wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Build enough renewables to replace all fossil fuels and then some Might work if you throw lots and lots of nuclear reactors into the mix. It's less dangerous than most people think, and is most likely the most efficient way to amortise the energy shortage induced recession. (Renewables still need massive investment, I'm just saying they likely won't be enough.)

There are studies for Germany that show that just renewables can do it. I assume in other countries it's similar. I'm not opposed to nuclear, but building nuclear plants takes way too long. We have twenty years give or take to become carbon neutral, there doesn't seem to be enough time to fight the legal battles you have to win before you can even start building nuclear plants.

Wind and Solar have something Nuclear doesn't have, ability of small players to enter the market, relentless decreases in capital costs, and low regulatory requirements. Which why they have traction and nuclear doesn't.

Re: Europe's record heat wave moves toward Greenland

#110

Post by jointpdf »

xwdv wrote: post #59
mikeash wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re going straight from “we don’t really know if something is happening” to “it’s too late anyway so why bother” without going through the troublesome “we should try to stop this” phase.

If the world were a fine place worth fighting for, maybe you’d have a point. But increasingly, I just look around, see the news, see the social media, and think why bother? Humanity will never be anything more than this. Things seem to be wrapping up, don’t have kids, don’t try to save the world, just savor what is left till it’s gone. In the coming decades we will begin to see a loss in the knowledge of mankind, as…

The only known habitable planet in the universe, one filled to the brim with millions of unique forms of life, isn’t worth fighting for because...social media? Do I need to elaborate on the irony of this?
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