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Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

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Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#101

Post by ryacko »

jon_richards wrote: post #40
icebraining wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IoT is a great success - in industry. At home, from what I can tell, it mostly divides into: - People who apparently live in warzones and need military-level surveillance of their home - People who want to feel like they're living in the Star Trek universe - People with very specific needs, who might take advantage of a commercial IoT device or two in their overall setup

I'd love to have blackout blinds that close every night and open 30 minutes before my alarm goes off. I haven't been able to find a quality (quiet!) product that does this.

You would have to build your own with a small, insulated motor, and a high gear ratio.

You might be able to hire someone at a local makerspace to build something along those lines.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#102

Post by ska »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #60
m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

It's a great idea, but companies are building products that no one wants. Here's a few ideas of products / services / suites of items I would actually buy for my home: - Machine to completely do my dishes. End to end. It puts them from the sink to the dishwasher. Runs the dishwasher. Takes them out of the dishwasher and puts them in the cabinet. I do not care if this takes 5 hours - it can run overnight. I just don't…

I don’t see what is “IoT” about any of these examples, except the remote-dog-letter-outer perhaps; can you elaborate?

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#103

Post by IshKebab »

sudoaza wrote: post #71

HTTP for IOT is super heavy, on one side it may be simpler for developer to hop in, but performance wise this shouldn't be used for anything large scale or where power/bandwidth constrains are an issue. Something like ble/lora/zigbee for device-gateway comunication and mqtt or similar for gateway-collector is the best for me.

There are plenty of IoT devices that are mains powered, and also many modern microcontrollers include an HTTP stack (e.g. the eps32). But yeah I agree it does seem pretty stupid to say "It's easy! Just use http, SSL, websockets and JSON!" when your device might be sending a single bit and running off a coin cell.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#104

Post by jpindar »

hamilyon2 wrote: post #27
m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

Iot is already in consumer electronics space. It is firmly in the present, and it is worth the hassle for a lot of people.

And it's been commonplace in industrial electronics for about 20 years. The reaction to it there was "It has an rs-232 over Ethernet adapter built in? That's convenient."

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#105

Post by doctorpangloss »

tialaramex wrote: post #29

This the closest we have so far to an answer to the point raised in the IETF 105 Technical Plenary a few days ago. Encrypting everything means that IoT devices represent an unknown threat - your "smart" TV connects to Sourceforge and downloads... something every week. What for? Your "smart" thermostat calls the IP of the vendor, maybe to get firmware updates, but it also calls the Disney corporation - what for? You c…

> You can't snoop any of this... Obviously hardcore reverse engineering is possible, but it's extremely expensive

The path to the platform you want looks like the iOS App Store.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#106

Post by r3bl »

wongarsu wrote: post #96
r3bl wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use NFC tags as a trigger. I simply hover my phone over a tag and an action happens in the background. It feels much better than dealing with separate apps and always-on microphones. > If IoT wants to move away from the current status as expensive, unreliable gimmicks, companies need to stop focusing on the idea of separate smart things and start thinking in terms of smart homes Why would they do that? They do want…

> I use NFC tags as a trigger. I simply hover my phone over a tag and an action happens in the background. That reads like what you really want is a regular physical button or switch. I think a lot of devices suffer because they try to fit the IoT label instead of just being a smart device without internet or even phone connectivity.

You'd think so, but NFCs are far easier to program and re-program.

One of the NFC tags on my work desk triggers "focus mode". Lights change to bright white, a (non-local) radio station starts playing in the background, and the volume gets auto-adjusted to something bearable. That saves me like 20 clicks or so on two remotes.

It's all about those small victories that save me a few minutes each day, all without a need to route cables throughout the apartment. When I want to re-purpose an NFC tag, it takes me maybe 30 seconds to do so (instead of having to re-route the cables throughout my home). Physical buttons can do one task and one task only. NFC tags can trigger as many tasks on as many devices as I want them to.

If my Internet goes down, things still work. If I don't want to use my phone, I don't have to (I can achieve the same things from my laptop). I don't have to worry about turning shit off when I leave my home, Home Assistant does that for me (if an nmap scan doesn't detect any trusted device on my network). If a company whose gadget I'm using goes bankrupt, things are still perfectly usable.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#107

Post by doctorpangloss »

m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

> who are already overcharging me for non-repairable planned-obsolescence-ridden products, to overcharge me a bit more...

NAS devices and networked home speakers are incredibly competitive categories in the IoT space, and as anyone who has actually owned e.g. a Sonos knows, you listen to a lot more music and they've supported the same 12 year old hardware throughout its lifespan.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#108

Post by maxerickson »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #60
m12k wrote: post #16

What's HN's thoughts on IoT? To me it looks like yet another buzzword from the "wouldn't it be neat?" crowd (the same people who previously gave us a lot of hype about Semantic Web and P2P social networks) but as before none of the applications are actually worth the hassle, this prevents critical mass from ever being reached, and in reality it's mostly just a way for appliance companies who are already overcharging…

It's a great idea, but companies are building products that no one wants. Here's a few ideas of products / services / suites of items I would actually buy for my home: - Machine to completely do my dishes. End to end. It puts them from the sink to the dishwasher. Runs the dishwasher. Takes them out of the dishwasher and puts them in the cabinet. I do not care if this takes 5 hours - it can run overnight. I just don't…

Have you considered paying an organic automaton to do those things for you?

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#109

Post by tialaramex »

sp332 wrote: post #92
eb0la wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if we can popularize a safe option, we can just flag all the unsafe approaches I am not a lawyer, but I think under european privacy laws those approaches are probably ilegal, too. If some manufacturer (probably chinese) wants to grab data from people in Europe, they must comply with EU laws even if they don't have an office in the EU. Not beign able to sell to a huge market is probably a better tactique, but not t…

If you can't tell what data is being sent or retrieved, how will you prosecute them?

I can't tell what my 2028 model Foo Corp. Smart TV is sending to the HBO servers or why, it's technically impossible thanks to cryptography.

But a Federal Prosecutor can tell a judge these are the only Smart TVs that do that, and he thinks it's because they're violating the Tialaramex No Snooping Act of 2025, so he wants a warrant to see what HBO receives.

The warrant doesn't magically decrypt the packets - but refusing to obey the warrant is contempt of court, for which you can go to jail. An HBO employee shows the Prosecutor their database labelled "snooping" full of data from Foo Corp TVs that sure enough violates the No Snooping Act.

Re: Mozilla debuts implementation of WebThings Gateway open-source router firmware

#110

Post by maxerickson »

swiley wrote: post #93
SamuelAdams wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a great idea, but companies are building products that no one wants. Here's a few ideas of products / services / suites of items I would actually buy for my home: - Machine to completely do my dishes. End to end. It puts them from the sink to the dishwasher. Runs the dishwasher. Takes them out of the dishwasher and puts them in the cabinet. I do not care if this takes 5 hours - it can run overnight. I just don't…

Re 1: I’ve always felt like the easiest approach to this is to replace all the dishes with a standard size largish ceramic cup, then have a machine full of spinning brushes (like what’s used to clean water bottles sans the handle) that scrub all the surfaces (maybe one on the inside and three or so outside) while running soapy water over it. Then you can immediately just put it away.

Just have a robot that sanitizes the floor and eat directly off the floor.

What I mean is, people typically aren't going to make such a radical adjustment to their use of dishes just to avoid washing them.

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