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France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

bbc.com

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Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#101

Post by umeshunni »

bojan wrote: post #22
umeshunni wrote: post #6

Interestingly, the only recent French tech company to be even remotely globally relevant (Criteo), is also affected. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_France is a good list to look at. There is only one other software/internet company founded in France since 2000 in the 'Notable' list - 360Learning. About a third of the list was founded before 1900. A very different list than what you'd see in the US…

Sogeti is also very large, founded in 2002.

Looks like they were acquired by Capgemini

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#102

Post by bko »

ripdog wrote: post #28
bko wrote: post #15

I never understood the logic behind taxing large internet businesses. The idea behind taxes is that you use some public resource and you pay for that service. You own a home in a neighborhood, you pay property tax that funds the schools. You drive a car, you pay gasoline tax that funds the streets. You hire workers locally, you pay the tax to pay back all the contributions public institutions made to adding the skill…

Those large tech companies can make money in France because the french government provides all that is necessary for a free, fair and functioning market. How could Google make money in France if there was no french police force, education system, market regulation, court system, contract enforcement? All money made on the white market in any country is facilitated by that government, and taxes are paid on all profits…

> All money made on the white market in any country is facilitated by that government, and taxes are paid on all profits to pay for the services which allowed the profit to be made.

So any taxation is justified?

> It's not arbitrary to expect businesses to pay for services they benefit from.

Any digital company with revenue of more than €750m ($850m; £670m) - of which at least €25m is generated in France - would be subject to the levy.

That sounds arbitrary.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#103

Post by weber111 »

ziddoap wrote: post #75
liberte82 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Is only the US allowed to practice protectionism?

Very salient point. It's funny that the US is allowed to tariff anyone who breathes at them wrong under the guise of protecting US jobs/etc. but they are up in arms when another country decides to implement anything remotely seen as "against the US".

Please don't confuse the US with our government! (or, rather, with the subset of people in our government who happen to be talking at a given time---there are many levelheaded, effective people working in our government who never enter the spotlight)

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#104

Post by michaelmrose »

bluecalm wrote: post #81
Renaud wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>France does it mean I do business in France? It seems to me it should be treated the same as French person coming to my country, buying my game and going back home. In that case you, the vendor, would need to pay taxes where you sold the game. The problem with these large companies is that they basically pay little to no taxes _anywhere_, an optimisation that only large companies can really afford.

They pay taxes where they are located. I am opponent of corporate income tax as I think it's the worse possible way to get about taxation. France is already collecting VAT on what Google sells there. They could increase that if they want. Why should it matter to them if Google turns profits or not? The concept of "profit from sells to France" isn't really well defined either, their profit depends on cost of operating…

>They pay taxes where they are located.

The sale can trivially be said to occur in a different jurisdiction or they can make zero profit because that money is owed to a another company that exists to facilitate them not paying taxes.

The only thing that they can't move is the customer which is why this makes sense.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#105

Post by luckylion »

pkaye wrote: post #97
99052882514569 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say it is. Why would that change anything? France's government isn't trying to target or punish anyone (whether Ireland or Google), it just wants to stop the corporate tax avoidance it sees as unfair.

I'm saying if the EU states all worked together on taxation rules none of the tech giants could take advantage of them. Also Google could do a little payback by moving the higher pay jobs from France over to neighboring countries like Germany.

The EU can't work together on this, because their motives are incompatible. France, Germany want the corporations to pay taxes in France and Germany for the business they do in those countries. Ireland's business is offering a tax cut to the corporations so the corporations don't pay taxes in France or Germany and Ireland get's a cut in return. Ireland has no interest in changing this, obviously.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#106

Post by ziddoap »

bluecalm wrote: post #90
mars4rp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is more like, you are putting your product in their shops and not paying any tax on it!

That doesn't make any sense. I am actually delivering it to customers myself, run the accounting, run the store. I don't use their real estate, their roads, electricity, anything. How is it anything like putting my product in their stores?

How are you delivering it to the customer without using their roads, electricity, or "anything"?

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#107

Post by atonse »

glerk wrote: post #39
buboard wrote: post #17

I just hope the US does not "retaliate" on this. EU entrepreneurs are too dependent on US businesses.

I really wish US companies would take a more forceful approach with these rogue governments. “You get off our back or we pull out of your countries”

As an American whose taxes are heavily subsidizing these companies, I too hope that they pull out and are taught a lesson in paying taxes.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#108

Post by jtx22 »

liberte82 wrote: post #68
aey wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No matter how the law is written, if the result is that the exceptions only apply to French companies and not to the US, it’s bullshit :). They could pick arbitrary ways to bisect the set until they get the desired result.

Why? Is only the US allowed to practice protectionism?

No, China is the protectionism King.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#109

Post by ziddoap »

weber111 wrote: post #103
ziddoap wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very salient point. It's funny that the US is allowed to tariff anyone who breathes at them wrong under the guise of protecting US jobs/etc. but they are up in arms when another country decides to implement anything remotely seen as "against the US".

Please don't confuse the US with our government! (or, rather, with the subset of people in our government who happen to be talking at a given time---there are many levelheaded, effective people working in our government who never enter the spotlight)

I try to avoid painting with a broad brush wherever possible, but I was also trying to be sufficiently succinct. There is, of course, good to be found within the US government. Although, to an outsider, it feels like one has to look much harder to find that good now adays.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#110

Post by pbalau »

Who is this going to affect? The business:

1) between Facebook/Google and advertisers based in France?

2) between Facebook/Google and any advertiser as long as the ads are shown to people in France?

3) between Facebook/Google and any advertiser as long as the ads are shown to French people?

If it is the first, then I don't really see a problem. FB and co can either stop doing business directly with French advertisers, or eat the tax, or increase the prices.

If any of the others, then how would one go about determining how much money to pay without infringing on people's privacy? What would stop FB from either declaring a token amount of "business done in France - as per the options 2 and 3" or even say no business happened? How would the French gov check that? Get the list with all ads shown by FB over a month along with who they showed the ad to so the gov can check if those people where in France or not?

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