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Non-English-based programming languages

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Re: Non-English-based programming languages

#101

Post by robocat »

WalterBright wrote: post #86
robocat wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript has virtually always supported Unicode variable names (well, the basic multilingual plane). https://mathiasbynens.be/notes/javascript-identifiers

Sure, but do people in general use them?

If you don't know English (a lot of people) and you are writing a script for a web page, you would use your own language.

Although compression tools replace the majority of symbols with short Ascii symbols, so it may not show in the final packed code.

It looks like the closure compiler emits Ascii only, using escapes for Unicode symbols that are not transformed.

Re: Non-English-based programming languages

#102

Post by ksaj »

jpindar wrote: post #53
pasabagi wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the english associations of programming words being pretty confusing, to be honest. Generic, for instance, means a standard or non-descript object. Abstract, for another, means something without concrete existence. Static means something that doesn't move, or electrostatic charge. Void is a pretty archaic/unusual word for a space. All these things are a little bit like how they are used in programming lang…

Capital letters didn't mean shouting until after the internet - or at least texting, BBSs and such - became popular.

I think the same for programming languages. For example, all old LISP programs were capitalized. Nowadays we call it lisp and everything is primarily lowercase (Not Even CamelCase). It's pretty rare to see capitalized lisp code these days.

Here's a bit of parody code I wrote on the subject. https://github.com/ksaj/Capitalize.Lisp

(protip: It doesn't do anything the comments say it does, even though the results appear to.)

Re: Non-English-based programming languages

#103

Post by falcor84 »

majewsky wrote: post #81
malodyets wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programming uses the same words as regular English, but it is a completely different linguistic register, so there is never any conflict. It’s like working in any field with its own jargon — you use the meaning that is relevant to the context. In linguistics this is called the Relevance theory of meaning and interpretion, which explains why we do this contextual interpretation easily and mostly without thinking about…

> Programming uses the same words as regular English, but it is a completely different linguistic register, so there is never any conflict. Moreover, when you cross over those jargon terms into their regular meaning, hilarity ensues. For example, you can easily prove that oaks are infinitely tall in winter. Start by observing that in winter, oaks don't have leaves. Then consider the graph-theory definition of "tree"…

Alternatively, oaks do not have any nodes at all in winter

Re: Non-English-based programming languages

#104

Post by narag »

malodyets wrote: post #84
tuesdayrain wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Programming uses the same words as regular English, but it is a completely different linguistic register, so there is never any conflict. That's debatable. It's impossible for me to say "if" in any context without thinking about programming now. I can't help it.

That's a good point: "never any conflict" describes the final state rather than the growth process. When I was a younger programmer (as in, during the first few years), I discovered that assuming boolean / formal logic meanings for {if, or, else, and} in communication with my spouse (art + sales, and very smart, though not a programmer or trained in symbolic logic) resulted in, shall we say ... miscommunication. So I…

By the way... has or in English a different meaning than in code?

I cringe every time I hear the and/or thing translated to Spanish, usually several times in a row.

Not sure if it's the usual mistranslation or it's also idiotic in the original text.

Re: Non-English-based programming languages

#105

Post by Thorrez »

narag wrote: post #104
malodyets wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point: "never any conflict" describes the final state rather than the growth process. When I was a younger programmer (as in, during the first few years), I discovered that assuming boolean / formal logic meanings for {if, or, else, and} in communication with my spouse (art + sales, and very smart, though not a programmer or trained in symbolic logic) resulted in, shall we say ... miscommunication. So I…

By the way... has or in English a different meaning than in code? I cringe every time I hear the and/or thing translated to Spanish, usually several times in a row. Not sure if it's the usual mistranslation or it's also idiotic in the original text.

Yes, "or" in English often is more similar to xor in code. For example if someone says "I want pizza or a burger", that person probably does not want both pizza and a burger for the same meal, whereas in programming an equivalent expression would be satisfied if both are true simultaneously.

But "or" in English doesn't always mean xor in code. Sometimes it is the same as or in code.

Re: Non-English-based programming languages

#106

Post by ksaj »

jnurmine wrote: post #33

The Wikipedia list does not mention Tampio, an OO language where programs are written in proper Finnish: https://github.com/fergusq/tampio As an example, here is kertoma.itp (an example routine to calculate a factorial): Pienen luvun kertoma on riippuen siitä, onko se pienempi tai yhtä suuri kuin yksi, joko yksi tai pieni luku kerrottuna pienen luvun edeltäjän kertomalla. Luvun edeltäjä on se vähennettynä yhdellä. Ol…

This is great. Google translate even turns it into meaningful English. And just as you observed, it comes across as someone explaining the process.

Re: Non-English-based programming languages

#107

Post by jdminhbg »

School-Cotton wrote: post #95
komali2 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I hadn't thought about"random" much, but hazard kinda makes sense even in English. Like "allow me to hazard a guess."

hasard is in fact the French word for random chance.

Hazard in English comes from that, via the sense of gambling: https://www.etymonline.com/word/hazard

Re: Non-English-based programming languages

#108

Post by mauvehaus »

mdup wrote: post #68
mauvehaus wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many years ago, in elementary/primary school I went to a computer camp when I was living in Belgium. We used Logo in French on Macs. I don't remember much, but the keyword for random was 'hazard'. My experience was actually not bad; I didn't have any trouble associating the words with the abstract concepts involved in sending the turtle around the screen. I was doing fairly simplistic stuff though, I'll concede. I wo…

Probably it was the false friend "hasard" which, in French, means: chance, randomness.

It might well have been "hasard". It's been, uh, 20-something years? Thanks for the French lesson!

Re: Non-English-based programming languages

#109

Post by _emacsomancer_ »

malodyets wrote: post #35
aasasd wrote: post #24

Seeing a programming language in your native language after working with English ones, you discover that it looks and sounds pretty ridiculous. My belief is that the native language is ingrained on a low level in the brain, so it's decoded ‘in the hardware’ and directly invokes meanings and associations, whereas a second language goes through at least some level of conscious processing. The very same way, I'm physica…

Programming uses the same words as regular English, but it is a completely different linguistic register, so there is never any conflict. It’s like working in any field with its own jargon — you use the meaning that is relevant to the context. In linguistics this is called the Relevance theory of meaning and interpretion, which explains why we do this contextual interpretation easily and mostly without thinking about…

While some things are arguably vaguely close in meaning, e.g. `loop`, there are plenty of things which are essentially meaningless (or only coincidentally are words in English) like `car`, `cdr`, `cons`.

Re: Non-English-based programming languages

#110

Post by planteen »

zzzcpan wrote: post #27
interfixus wrote: post #16

Having something like a global standard, inter-intelligibility between languages etc. is an unmitigated Good Thing, and may it never change. Apparently, my English-as-a-second-language compatriots Bjarne Stroustrup, Anders Hejlsberg, and Rasmus Lerdorf agree with me.

And it's not even about English, but about a subset of ASCII on a QWERTY layout - symbols that are inputtable and explicitly marked on pretty much any keyboard. Whether most keywords in a programming language are in English or not is not even relevant. I mean if all keyboards had Greek symbols on them we would have an article about non-Greek-based programming languages. It's a good thing, I agree. There is no reason…

Totally agree. Using non-Latin characters would be a non- starter for most of the world.
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