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A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

scientificamerican.com

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Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

#101

Post by grecht »

Aromasin wrote: post #87
kendallpark wrote: post #27

My current (digital) handwritten note setup: - iPad Pro with (Gen 1 :sadface:) Apple Pencil. - Screen protector that gives a significant amount of friction to the screen so that it feels closer to paper. [1] - Goodnotes 5 or Notability (I use both--depends on the circumstances). [2] - A rule: iPad is solely a reading/studying/note-taking device. No keyboard, no social media apps. - Bonus: Twelve South BookBook case.…

Mine is a similar setup, except with Windows architecture. - Surface Go using stylus. - OneNote for note taking - ColdTurkey app (completely locks you out of blacklisted apps for a set amount of time [I've tried to crack it - I couldn't])

A feature I missed in OneNote: Handwriting recognition. Both GoodNotes and Notability are able to search your writing, provided it’s somewhat legible.

Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

#102

Post by sjogress »

kendallpark wrote: post #27

My current (digital) handwritten note setup: - iPad Pro with (Gen 1 :sadface:) Apple Pencil. - Screen protector that gives a significant amount of friction to the screen so that it feels closer to paper. [1] - Goodnotes 5 or Notability (I use both--depends on the circumstances). [2] - A rule: iPad is solely a reading/studying/note-taking device. No keyboard, no social media apps. - Bonus: Twelve South BookBook case.…

Personally, I'm far too undisciplined to enforce such rules on a tablet, so I got a Remarkable instead. Essentially an e-ink reader with handwriting capabilities.

Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

#103

Post by LoudogUno »

acd wrote: post #79

But in the age of fast. Seems like going slow and putting more effort into hand writing notes pays off in learning. As a side note analogy if you drive via GPS you will not remember they way as easy if you drive without via analogue map. How about if you take notes on laptop put that into spaced repetition software like Anki & Supermemo compared to hand written notes memory retention?

I guess it depends on how many places you navigate to and how important you think recalling each route (from memory) is. slow is good unless you have to prioritize what to remember I think...

Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

#104

Post by bayesian_horse »

leksak wrote: post #53
bayesian_horse wrote: post #34

In lectures, note-taking at all should be avoided, most of the time. Most lectures cover material that is presented very clearly in accompanying materials, books or the internet. The idea I could do a better job than those authors while listening to the stuff for the first time is ludicrous. And at least for me it doesn't help recollection or focus to write notes while listening, and many students report they can tak…

I wish lectures weren't really a thing in their current format. Why just reiterate what is already available in text and video? Have students consume the theoretical material beforehand and schedule Q&A's or practical application sessions or anything else where the interaction between lecturer and student may become something more dynamic.

Making students sit for hours in lectures still seems the most practical and efficient way to ensure they spend enough of their time learning something.

Expecting them to prepare the theory beforehand has not proven to be that practical. Lecturers who try this quickly learn to adjust their expectations downward, in my experience. And even then a lot of the "class" will be quite underprepared.

Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

#105

Post by LoudogUno »

shishy wrote: post #2

(FYI -- article is from 2014 -- I was wondering why this was being studied again, when it seemed well established, both anecdotally and in literature). Anytime I took notes by typing, I'd forget it seconds after finishing. But writing by hand forced me to think about what I was writing. The only thing that trumped that in cementing my understanding was actually having to explain what I learned to my classmates/peers.…

"actually having to explain what I learned to my classmates/peers"

isn't that what well typed/formatted notes should. unless your explanation always involve a bunch of bak-and-forth?

Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

#106

Post by leksak »

LoudogUno wrote: post #93
leksak wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice workflow, and goes back to this comment somewhat: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20271383 However, I'm not sure about the legality of recording audio without informing everyone in the room. In my country that would be illegal as some people have protected identities.

I think I understand your concern about the [local] legality of “recording audio”... if everybody would cease bringing (or otherwise sufficiently disable) _recording devices_ to/in public spaces. I don’t think the average person understands > cares > is negatively impacted by that concern. Any knowledge or experiences?

I suppose it's a lot like jay walking. Some people will care enough to observe the law and others will not. In reality, the problem only arises if you record something (say a lecture) and share it publicly and it exposes an individual whose identity is otherwise protected.

My experience has been, as someone that observes the law, I've been denied the opportunity to audio-record a lecture. In this instance, the person in question did not object but the professor did - stating that there was an individual that could be affected. Granted, it doesn't really make a difference if I use it for my own personal use but since everything is hosted in the cloud these days...

Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

#107

Post by bayesian_horse »

scarejunba wrote: post #96
jay_kyburz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is what I came to the comments to say. For me, paying attention was much more important than trying to take notes. It's a shame this study didn't have a third group that didn't take notes at all.

Same here. I wonder if it's the courses we took. I did Mathematics and Computer Science. The only time I took notes it was a disaster. My notes were perfect, my recollection awful. I had to reread them to get any value. The rest of the time I just sat in class and paid close attention, rarely noting down to look up some lemma or the other. Way better results. Instant recollection. I can still remember the Nullstellen…

It's easy to copy formulas from a blackboard without mentally processing them.

Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

#108

Post by leksak »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #104
leksak wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish lectures weren't really a thing in their current format. Why just reiterate what is already available in text and video? Have students consume the theoretical material beforehand and schedule Q&A's or practical application sessions or anything else where the interaction between lecturer and student may become something more dynamic.

Making students sit for hours in lectures still seems the most practical and efficient way to ensure they spend enough of their time learning something. Expecting them to prepare the theory beforehand has not proven to be that practical. Lecturers who try this quickly learn to adjust their expectations downward, in my experience. And even then a lot of the "class" will be quite underprepared.

> Making students sit for hours in lectures still seems the most practical and efficient way to ensure they spend enough of their time learning something.

I don't believe the onus is on the educational institute to ensure that students learn anything when it comes to higher education.

The student is paying tuition or taking a student loan to be there, I think it should be reasonable to expect them to exercise their own responsibility and learn the source-material.

The fact that they do not might be indicative that they should be studying something else, and catering to them only exascerbates the issue rather than leading to a Darwinian solution.

Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

#109

Post by pbhjpbhj »

scarecrowbob wrote: post #15
funwithjustin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if adults can improve their handwriting.

Most skills are things that you can get better at. I bought a nice fountain pen (well, a $14 pilot) and overhauled my cursive writing. It took about 6 weeks and I write pretty legibly in cursive. I'm more legible in various print scripts (that I have also worked on as an adult), but cursive is faster. Admittedly, that is just an anecdote. But if you're curious, try and get better... you'll likely improve if you activ…

> but cursive is faster

Have you tested? I recall - maybe a decade ago - seeing a study suggesting that in fact printing individual letters could be faster; I still write in cursive when I need to handwrite though (basically never).

Edit: http://nautil.us/issue/40/learning/cursive-handwriting-and-o... is a good summary; first 2 paras of last section are the TL;DR.

Re: A Learning Secret: Don't Take Notes with a Laptop (2014)

#110

Post by Nashooo »

sjogress wrote: post #102
kendallpark wrote: post #27

My current (digital) handwritten note setup: - iPad Pro with (Gen 1 :sadface:) Apple Pencil. - Screen protector that gives a significant amount of friction to the screen so that it feels closer to paper. [1] - Goodnotes 5 or Notability (I use both--depends on the circumstances). [2] - A rule: iPad is solely a reading/studying/note-taking device. No keyboard, no social media apps. - Bonus: Twelve South BookBook case.…

Personally, I'm far too undisciplined to enforce such rules on a tablet, so I got a Remarkable instead. Essentially an e-ink reader with handwriting capabilities.

How does it perform in practice?
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