Clojerl – Clojure for the Erlang VM • Hacker News Board

Re: Clojerl – Clojure for the Erlang VM

#101

Post by pdimitar » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 2:44 PM UTC

keymone wrote: post #61

haskal wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Phoenix + LiveView maybe you won't need the frontend.

it's such a weird concept to me.. "server-rendered html" is what i was doing most of my webdev career and suddenly it's the "hot new thing"? anyway i still don't see why i would need it with Clojure if i can have single codebase and language for backend and frontend and render whatever i want at either -end.

Because with LiveView you can throw away 90% of your JavaScript and work almost exclusively with Elixir both on the frontend and the back end.

Re: Clojerl – Clojure for the Erlang VM

#102

Post by yogthos » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:31 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #99

valw wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another reason might be the "cultural" aspects of Clojure, and their impacts on its ecosystem - in particular simplicity and stability are paramount, whereas the Elixir ecosystem seems to put more emphasis on immediate ease of use and elegance à la Ruby, at the cost of doing some "magical" designs which you tend to not see in the Clojure ecosystem.

How exactly is stability not paramount in Elixir? It runs in the BEAM.

Stability of the language itself is another factor though. Clojure does a really good job avoiding breaking changes in the language.

Re: Clojerl – Clojure for the Erlang VM

#103

Post by keymone » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 6:35 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #101

keymone wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's such a weird concept to me.. "server-rendered html" is what i was doing most of my webdev career and suddenly it's the "hot new thing"? anyway i still don't see why i would need it with Clojure if i can have single codebase and language for backend and frontend and render whatever i want at either -end.

Because with LiveView you can throw away 90% of your JavaScript and work almost exclusively with Elixir both on the frontend and the back end.

Right, but I could also throw away 100% of my JavaScript and not have to deal with any of the nodejs/npm/webpack/whatever nonsense if I used Clojure.

Re: Clojerl – Clojure for the Erlang VM

#104

Post by pdimitar » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 9:53 PM UTC

yogthos wrote: post #102

pdimitar wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly is stability not paramount in Elixir? It runs in the BEAM.

Stability of the language itself is another factor though. Clojure does a really good job avoiding breaking changes in the language.

With the exception of a few project config settings whose legacy variants are still backwards compatible, Elixir is absolutely stable as well.

So not sure what were you saying about Elixir.

Re: Clojerl – Clojure for the Erlang VM

#105

Post by lliamander » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

pron wrote: post #98

lliamander wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the work you are doing on Loom. As someone who has done production Erlang code in the past and presently has to code in Java, I eagerly await the day that Loom becomes production ready. What are your thoughts on Pony ( https://www.ponylang.io/ )?

I just saw a couple of talks about it. Seems very interesting (more interesting to me than Rust), but I think it's too opinionated to gain much attention in this climate.

> Seems very interesting (more interesting to me than Rust)

My sentiments as well.

> I think it's too opinionated to gain much attention in this climate

Possibly. Rust is pretty opinionated but it seems to be doing well. My feeling is that Pony's probably not going to "win" (i.e. be the main replacement for C/C++) but I'm hoping that, like Erlang, it's able to carve out a stable enough niche.