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We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

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Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#101

Post by wysifnwyg »

busymom0 wrote: post #49

This is some super click bait and borderline deceitful blog. Apps on iOS are sandboxed so you can't access data about other app's launch and usage. These apps were using MDM profiles to get that usage data. This also meant that the user's internet data was going through these third parties which is a pretty big privacy issue. Plus having MDM profiles gave these third parties enormous access to the user's device setti…

I don't think I saw MDM mentioned anywhere on this blog. Yet, it's that key detail that made all the difference. I know there's a lot of functions that Apple restricts developers from accessing, but it's usually for a good reason.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#102

Post by threeseed »

ilikerashers wrote: post #90

"In mid-September 2016, we began the development process. In early December of 2016, the “Sense – Social Media Time Tracker” app made its debut in the App Store." That's an incredibly fast build time!

I used to work for a mobile agency and we used to complete a decent sized app from concept to in-store in about a month.

Very easy if the tooling is good, the testing is easy (only a few device types) and it's only one target platform.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#103

Post by xrd »

scarface74 wrote: post #32
xrd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not 100% committed to this idea, but VPNs all offer some trade-off between value and security, right? And, it seems weird that Apple, the company that continually finger points at Google and Facebook as invasive of privacy, would not support user choice here. Their OS should permit VPNs and businesses running through VPNs, or they are in many ways doing the same thing that Google is doing with its changes to Chro…

Apple does “support VPNs”. There is a setting for it. Settings -> General -> VPN. But the article even said the company got the idea from Onava. A company that tracked your app usage and sold the data and that was bought by Facebook.

So, I'm unclear what happened here. They were exploiting a hole in the VPN setting of iOS? If it was a bad-actor VPN, then I support Apple doing what they did. If it was Apple not liking the business model of a VPN that competes with their own new OS-core functionality, then that's another black mark on the AppStore model. This company seems to be asserting the latter, no? Are they twisting the facts?

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#104

Post by shripadk »

busymom0 wrote: post #77
smiths1999 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - the comment you are replying to is making the point that revenue may be $500,000 (extrapolated) but if server costs are $1,000,000 then the app is losing money, not making money. I see this trend quite frequently, only mentioning revenue but leaving out costs.

Yep. One thing which I have learnt from watching Shark Tank is that many companies would come with crazy valuations because they make millions in revenue. Only once questioned by the sharks would they disclose the much bigger operating costs and were severely bleeding money instead of profits.

Yep! Not to take away from what you said (which is absolutely true) the author does mention hitting profitability (assuming it is in 2018).

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#105

Post by scarface74 »

AlphaWeaver wrote: post #88
stefan_ wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an app on Android for ad blocking that simply runs the VPN server locally. Works perfectly fine. Of course that means all the juicy data isn't flowing through your startup, on the upside you won't wake up one day with an angry mob asking the attorney general to federally charge you for hijacking their communication under the false pretense of app usage tracking.

Oh definitely, I 100% agree. I'm not an expert enough on whether that's possible on iOS but I'm no supporter of them using the VPN argument as an excuse to siphon and sell the user data.

Yes. You can run a VPN locally and just configure it in settings.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#106

Post by busymom0 »

kushan2020 wrote: post #95
busymom0 wrote: post #49

This is some super click bait and borderline deceitful blog. Apps on iOS are sandboxed so you can't access data about other app's launch and usage. These apps were using MDM profiles to get that usage data. This also meant that the user's internet data was going through these third parties which is a pretty big privacy issue. Plus having MDM profiles gave these third parties enormous access to the user's device setti…

It is funny how you assume Apple is first party and it gets to decide who is trustworthy or not. It might be better at privacy when compared to other companies, but a for profit company can never be fair or even correct when making such decisions on privacy.

I am still willing to accept Apple's stance on privacy proven by their track record over some no reputation company which claims they got the idea from Onava (an app bought by Facebook to track users).

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#107

Post by justaguyhere »

kushan2020 wrote: post #95
busymom0 wrote: post #49

This is some super click bait and borderline deceitful blog. Apps on iOS are sandboxed so you can't access data about other app's launch and usage. These apps were using MDM profiles to get that usage data. This also meant that the user's internet data was going through these third parties which is a pretty big privacy issue. Plus having MDM profiles gave these third parties enormous access to the user's device setti…

It is funny how you assume Apple is first party and it gets to decide who is trustworthy or not. It might be better at privacy when compared to other companies, but a for profit company can never be fair or even correct when making such decisions on privacy.

It is all relative. Maybe neither Apple nor this company is trust worthy, but there is a reasonable expectation on users part to expect Apple to protect their privacy (after all, users pay crap ton of money for their iPhones) more than a tiny, unknown company.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#108

Post by mirimir »

busymom0 wrote: post #49

This is some super click bait and borderline deceitful blog. Apps on iOS are sandboxed so you can't access data about other app's launch and usage. These apps were using MDM profiles to get that usage data. This also meant that the user's internet data was going through these third parties which is a pretty big privacy issue. Plus having MDM profiles gave these third parties enormous access to the user's device setti…

Yeah, that jumped out at me too.

> We could set up a VPN service and analyze the traffic passing through our servers to learn which social media services mobile devices were communicating with, and using this data we could estimate the time spent on different services and block access to them when users exceeded their self-determined limits.

I mean, I use VPN services all the time. But doing that for an app to track social media usage? That's at least crazy, and arguably deceptive.

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#109

Post by scarface74 »

xrd wrote: post #103
scarface74 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does “support VPNs”. There is a setting for it. Settings -> General -> VPN. But the article even said the company got the idea from Onava. A company that tracked your app usage and sold the data and that was bought by Facebook.

So, I'm unclear what happened here. They were exploiting a hole in the VPN setting of iOS? If it was a bad-actor VPN, then I support Apple doing what they did. If it was Apple not liking the business model of a VPN that competes with their own new OS-core functionality, then that's another black mark on the AppStore model. This company seems to be asserting the latter, no? Are they twisting the facts?

Apple isn’t making money off of their implementation. If the company wanted to sell a “VPN” service outside of the App Store, they could do that and just tell the user how to set it up.

Why would you want a third party to control your device?

Re: We launched an app with $500k annual revenue, and then Apple copied it

#110

Post by busymom0 »

SenorSourdough wrote: post #81
opencl wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't actually directly track app usage locally, it tunneled all traffic through a VPN and tracked usage by monitoring network connections.

It's mind boggling that there is any good way for an app that just tracks your social media usage to make money when they have to tunnel all their user's internet usage. (Assuming they actually made any money on that $500k revenue...)

I really really doubt they made any money on $500k. Unless they developed the app themselves, hiring developers for such a complex app with backend itself would cost a few hundred thousand dollars.
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