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US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

theguardian.com

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Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#101

Post by neves »

mc32 wrote: post #6

I wish people would just focus on the part that regards journalism, free press, free speech, sources and releasing leaked information. All the rest will fall along political lines. Liked or disliked for the effects on political allies and foes. It’s obvious if you have followed this case. Three years ago the right loathed him, today they love him and conversely today the left loathes him but 3 years ago they loved hi…

And the attack comes from the greatest democracy in the world. It is not from a dictatorial state. If the heroes are this way...

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#102

Post by cyphar »

chrisseaton wrote: post #97
cyphar wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a friend who broke their ankle and is in hospital overnight, you send a basket with soap and socks (or more likely, flowers). If you are the head of a news organisation and have a fellow journalist (who you've worked with in the past and gave you "the biggest scoop in 30 years") and is currently facing political persecution by the most powerful government on earth, you send lawyers to help him get out of…

All these activities seem wildly beyond the scope of what I’d consider journalism. Why don’t they just write about it rather than getting mixed up in it like this?

Journalism organisations have lawyers for a reason (and they do help other journalists and even sources with legal troubles), so I completely disagree it was out of their power to do something about it.

But also -- they didn't even write about it. They smeared him relentlessly for 7 years only to "change their tune" immediately after the point-of-no-return.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#103

Post by foldr »

syn0byte wrote: post #24
ryanmercer wrote: post #3

There's a pretty big difference between: 'free media' and 'doxing individuals who's identities were protected because if they are publicly revealed not only are their lives at serious risk but it also exposes their close family and friends to rape/murder/torture until a time at which they are found and violently murdered because terrorists and hostile governments actually do this sort of thing to their perceived enem…

The irony in your argument is absolutely breath taking. The footage of the US Military murdering a dozen people, of which 2 worked for the press, was part of leaks for which he now faces charges. "How dare he show the US murdering journalists! That could lead to more journalist getting murdered."

No, the comment refers to Wikileaks releasing the names of American informants in Iraq, potentially endangering their lives.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#104

Post by cyphar »

tyingq wrote: post #87
cyphar wrote: post #35

I find it incredible that it took the Guardian 7 years to decide to write this article. EDIT: In fact, it's not even by the Guardian -- it's an opinion piece by an ex-Guardian editor who was (at least implicitly) part of the smear campaign against Julian Assange "back in the day". Let's not forget that the Guardian sent Julian Assange a basket with soap and socks when he took refuge in the Ecuadorian Embassy[1]. What…

I suspect they are responding because the recently added on espionage charges do pose a threat to journalism. The earlier, more narrow charges, didn't really mean much for journalists.

The accusations were only made public a few months ago (with some leaks less than a year ago pointing to them). If they feel so strongly that he's a journalist they should've been saying something for the past 7 years. Instead they've been publicly smearing him, and in some cases flat-out lying.

Assange predicted publicly for many years that the US was going to indict him under the Espionage Act, and now that it's happening everyone seems to be pretending that "we couldn't possibly have seen this coming!". I was still a high-school student in 2012 and I could see it as clear as day. I refuse to believe that any reasonable adult would be so naive to have not seen this coming.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#105

Post by rhino369 »

Miner49er wrote: post #62
levelist_com wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only is he not a journalist, he actively encouraged others to steal and disseminate classified information. That is a crime in this country and most, if not all, other countries I would imagine. Having a website doesn't make you a journalist. Calling yourself a journalist didn't make it so. Courts will have to decide that I suppose.

He's not even a US citizen. Why should he face our laws? Should American woman be extradited to Saudi Arabia for not following their laws? Should American citizens be extradited to North Korea, or China, for exposing their government secrets? It's extremely authoritarian for the United States to do this. It's not only an attack on free speech, it's the United States applying it's laws to everyone in the world. Also,…

>He's not even a US citizen. Why should he face our laws

Because he allegedly spied on our country. That gives us the right to charge him.

If someone plots to murder someone but does it over the Internet, should they be immune from legal action?

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#106

Post by belorn »

josefresco wrote: post #4

Just because Assange did one (or more) good things (Collateral Murder) does not make everything else he does, also good. Assange is not a journalist, and ceased being a journalist when he decided to enforce personal agendas and arguably work with nation-states to harm other nation-states. Even if you believe he's a journalist, journalists should not be above the law even if part of their work is for the good of the p…

I took a look at the list for Pulitzer Prize for Investigative Reporting and asked myself, how many of those journalists broke the law?

The 2019 winner reported on a University of Southern California gynecologist accused of violating hundreds of young women. In order to write the story they went to former USC employees and solicited, among other things, patient confidential information. This is of course a crime by both the journalists and former employees, but one that most people will agree benefited society.

I wonder how many other journalists has won that award because they approach people to get confidential information in order to further a investigation. My guess is a lot. I doubt we could have investigative reporting at all if journalists could not ask questions in fear of being guilty of soliciting confidential information.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#107

Post by blancheneige »

mc32 wrote: post #6

I wish people would just focus on the part that regards journalism, free press, free speech, sources and releasing leaked information. All the rest will fall along political lines. Liked or disliked for the effects on political allies and foes. It’s obvious if you have followed this case. Three years ago the right loathed him, today they love him and conversely today the left loathes him but 3 years ago they loved hi…

>Three years ago the right loathed him

Please do not conflate the right and the neocons.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#108

Post by crdoconnor »

levelist_com wrote: post #93
Miner49er wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do, but isn't that typically when the law was originally broken in the country they are to be extradited to? Not overseas? I'm also aware this isn't the first time the U.S. has done this sort of thing, but it's still very authoritarian.

So... let me get this straight. Youre alright with a foreign national stealing or encouraging the theft of classified US intel and publishing as long as it didnt happen on US soil? Further, youre alright with Americans being exposed and/or killed b/c of it? Because, you know, though it was a crime against the US, it was perpetrated by a foreign national of foreign soil?

>Further, youre alright with Americans being exposed and/or killed b/c of it?

There's no evidence of this. Since the leaks were about embarrassing unprosecuted US military murders of civilians arguably it saved lives by driving them to be more careful.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#109

Post by levelist_com »

Miner49er wrote: post #99
levelist_com wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... let me get this straight. Youre alright with a foreign national stealing or encouraging the theft of classified US intel and publishing as long as it didnt happen on US soil? Further, youre alright with Americans being exposed and/or killed b/c of it? Because, you know, though it was a crime against the US, it was perpetrated by a foreign national of foreign soil?

That's beside the point. I don't think the person in that example should face charges in the U.S., no. (But maybe they should in their own country, and obviously any murderers should be brought to trial in their own country)

I, like the government, would disagree with you on that. Obviously youre entitled to that opinion.

Re: US efforts to jail Assange for espionage are a grave threat to a free media

#110

Post by whamlastxmas »

mr_overalls wrote: post #33
_130o wrote: post #27

[flagged]

Exactly. He willingly participated in a Russian cyber/disinformation attack on the US electoral system. Whatever journalistic bona fides he once possessed are long gone.

Where's the proof of this?
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