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Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

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Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#101

Post by gbear605 »

untog wrote: post #61
Larrikin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I don't care whether Lyft gets their ROI and just want the best bike share possible?

An exclusivity agreement might result in the best bike share possible. I don't want to pick up one company's bike and struggle to find a dock for that same company when it comes time for dropoff. Either one company gets exclusivity, or you end up with a huge amount of public space given over to redundant infrastructure.

Or you mandate a docking system that works for all the bike companies. Commoditize the docks using public action and then the free market can actually be free to solve the rest.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#102

Post by woodruffw »

vajaya wrote: post #97
woodruffw wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 0.02c as a Citi Bike (NYC's bikeshare) subscriber: I wouldn't be surprised if there's a modest profit to be made in bike sharing, at least in NYC. I know quite a few people with a yearly subscription (either personally or via their employer), and I would consider paying for one personally now that I've experienced their convenience. I don't know how much money Citi Bike/Motivate actually makes here, although AFAIK…

I don't have their unit economy data, but I'm still (stubbornly) skeptical of the profitability of bike sharing. One reason is the market depth, in the sense that most of the time it's just young, educated and often bourgeois people in metropolis, which is a tiny proportion of people, who ride bike for purposes other than recreational.

Yeah, I don't expect bike sharing to ever be profitable outside of (major) city centers. Maybe that's a good thing -- once we get over this stupid fad of monetizing basic improvements to urban life, we'll be able to buy the equipment for pennies on the dollar and run it as a public service ;)

FWIW, I think your analysis (young, educated, bourgeois) is spot on, and that bikeshare companies are completely aware. Check out this map of Citi Bike's availability:

https://member.citibikenyc.com/map/

If you're not familiar with NYC: it's only available in business, wealthly/middle-class, and rapidly gentrifying areas. To continue my baseless speculation: it wouldn't surprise me if Citi Bike's (hypothetical) profitability relied on only serving these populations. Reprehensible, and another reason to agitate for bike shares as an extension of public transport.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#103

Post by untog »

jessriedel wrote: post #87
untog wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't really have to feel sorry for them, you just have to recognise that they are entitled to what their contract says they are. If you're against an exclusivity agreement (which actually makes a lot of sense when establishing a transportation network) then your complaint should be with the government, not Lyft.

jMyles specifically is objecting to whether the city has the moral authority to sell that exclusivity. If I sell my neighbor's lawn chair to a passerby without my neighbor's permission, the passerby doesn't have a claim on the chair even though it's my ill behavior that was the cause. (This is true regardless of whether the passerby knew who the true owner was.)

> If I sell my neighbor's lawn chair to a passerby without my neighbor's permission

That isn't even remotely similar to the position a local government fills, however.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#104

Post by rorykoehler »

205guy wrote: post #26
iso1337 wrote: post #3

I like these commute options that make it easier to get around but starting at $2/ride seems a bit high. If I were to use this twice daily for 200 days a year, I'd be looking at $800/year! I'd rather buy a bike in that case, and just use the bikeshare for one offs. I've never used a GoBike, but are those prices real & what are the typical usage patterns? Edit: I see, there are monthly and yearly plans that make it mu…

I've used these bikes in San Francisco several times on visits, they are great for getting around the downtown area. Public transit is 2.50 per ride ($3 cash starting July 1st), so it's cheaper as long as you are in their service area. The one thing is you're limited to 30 minutes before surcharges apply. You used to only be able to purchase 1-day, 3-day, or 5-day passes, it was about the same price as long as you us…

I used to subscribe to mobike in Singapore but between poor redistribution and no maintenance whatsoever it quickly became a negative experience. Bike shares only work if they are dockless, well maintained and most importantly abundant throughout the whole service area at all times.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#105

Post by esoterica »

ravenstine wrote: post #88
baby wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't read this seriously knowing that cars take 1000000x more space

That's because cars are way more useful. They have a much longer range than bikes or scooters, are fueled more easily, carry cargo, transport multiple people at once, can run on both gas and electric, have air conditioning, stereo systems, safety features, etc. Bicycles are obsolete in every way and aren't practical for most commuters. You bet cars take up 1000000x the space of bikes.

This reeks of suburban provincialism. Bikes are more useful in an urban context. On an individual level they are faster because they don’t get stuck in traffic and you don’t have to pay for parking. On a macro level cars are fundamentally incompatible with density because there is literally not enough space in a city for everyone to store and drive their cars.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#107

Post by jonas21 »

woodruffw wrote: post #102
vajaya wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have their unit economy data, but I'm still (stubbornly) skeptical of the profitability of bike sharing. One reason is the market depth, in the sense that most of the time it's just young, educated and often bourgeois people in metropolis, which is a tiny proportion of people, who ride bike for purposes other than recreational.

Yeah, I don't expect bike sharing to ever be profitable outside of (major) city centers. Maybe that's a good thing -- once we get over this stupid fad of monetizing basic improvements to urban life, we'll be able to buy the equipment for pennies on the dollar and run it as a public service ;) FWIW, I think your analysis (young, educated, bourgeois) is spot on, and that bikeshare companies are completely aware. Check…

I'm guessing the "young, educated, bourgeois" demographic is the early adopter of most new technologies. If you wrote off everything that was primarily used by that demographic in its early days, you'd have missed out on the personal computer, mobile phones, digital photography, and many other things that are widespread today.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#108

Post by woodruffw »

jonas21 wrote: post #107
woodruffw wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't expect bike sharing to ever be profitable outside of (major) city centers. Maybe that's a good thing -- once we get over this stupid fad of monetizing basic improvements to urban life, we'll be able to buy the equipment for pennies on the dollar and run it as a public service ;) FWIW, I think your analysis (young, educated, bourgeois) is spot on, and that bikeshare companies are completely aware. Check…

I'm guessing the "young, educated, bourgeois" demographic is the early adopter of most new technologies. If you wrote off everything that was primarily used by that demographic in its early days, you'd have missed out on the personal computer, mobile phones, digital photography, and many other things that are widespread today.

> If you wrote off everything that was primarily used by that demographic in its early days, you'd have missed out on the personal computer, mobile phones, digital photography, and many other things that are widespread today.

Not writing off! I'm in that demographic. But let's call a spade a spade.

That being said, I think there's a substantial difference between PCs/cellphones/digital photography and bikesharing: the former were also adopted as business interests, while the latter is just a luxury or employment perk. PCs and cellphones reshaped the office, digital cameras reshaped newstelling and photojournalism; I find it hard to believe that bikesharing-qua-private-service will be doing much reshaping.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#109

Post by sushid »

robotburrito wrote: post #52

Why doesn't the city just run it's own scooter/bike share? Seems like it would exist in the same domain as things like MUNI and in theory would allow the city to make a profit instead of LYFT/UBER etc.

Clearly you haven't taken the MUNI on a regular basis. The last thing we need is an incompetent government agency taking over yet another method of transportation.

Re: Lyft Takes over Ford GoBike

#110

Post by jessriedel »

untog wrote: post #103
jessriedel wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jMyles specifically is objecting to whether the city has the moral authority to sell that exclusivity. If I sell my neighbor's lawn chair to a passerby without my neighbor's permission, the passerby doesn't have a claim on the chair even though it's my ill behavior that was the cause. (This is true regardless of whether the passerby knew who the true owner was.)

> If I sell my neighbor's lawn chair to a passerby without my neighbor's permission That isn't even remotely similar to the position a local government fills, however.

That point of the example wasn't demonstrate definitively whether the government has moral authority to sell exclusivity. (That's obviously disputable whereas the lawn-chair example is not.) The point was to show that Lyft isn't necessarily entitled to anything just because they have a signed a contract, as you suggested. Rather, you would actually have to dispute jMyles's claim on moral authority.
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