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How to Draw Animals (1930)

dessinoprimaire.blogspot.com

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Re: How to Draw Animals (1930)

#101

Post by [deleted] »

w0utert wrote: post #93
spectramax wrote: post #24

The fundamental issue that is hardly addressed in drawing by shape recognition is that it gets the proportion right but fails to teach the inherent "3D" structure of the animal. The litmus test for drawing is to ask someone to draw an animal. If they can, great. Follow up and see if that draw the same thing but now in isometric view or from an arbitrary viewpoint/perspective. Imagine if you have a camera with various…

I don't disagree with what you are saying, though I do think it's a little harsh for what's seems to be just a book to get kids going when they want to draw animals. Everyone needs to start somewhere, and I think this is just one of many ways to pick up drawing. That said, I'm honestly interested in any suggestions for books or online courses that you would recommend for someone who wants to improve their drawing ski…

[deleted]

Re: How to Draw Animals (1930)

#103

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

dmos62 wrote: post #71

I don't know about you, but I hate this cerebral type drawing, where you take a subject, analyse, restructure and reduce it into some components, etc. It's no fun and uses faculties that I want to rest when drawing. If I draw like this, what happens in my head is pretty much the same as when I work. I'd definitely not teach kids to draw this way. If anyone is interested in alternatives, check out Drawing on the Right…

The question for me is whether someone who has learned to draw some animal in this way will then be able to draw the same animal in a different pose, from a different angle, in a different style, etc.

My intution is that- no. These sort of techniques literally teach you were to place your lines. And that's the lines of a set of very specific drawings, and only those drawings, ever. It's like the difference between learning a lookup table relating numbers from 1 to n to their sums, versus learning an algorithm to sum arbitrary numbers. The kinds of learning become equivalent as the size of the lookup table approaches infinity... but since here we're talking about images of complex forms it would really have to approach infinity before it's very useful at all.

I'm also a bit concerned that this is meant to be used to teach primary school students how to draw animals. Does this sort of instruction really serve to help a child understand how to represent an animal?

And, I guess, is it really a good idea to take human beings at the very time in their lives when their relation with the world is at its most fluid and try to teach them that, no, you don't need imagination to be creative, there's this one simple trick that you can use to always get the adults to pat you on your head and say how talented you are?

Re: How to Draw Animals (1930)

#104

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

narag wrote: post #76
dmos62 wrote: post #71

I don't know about you, but I hate this cerebral type drawing, where you take a subject, analyse, restructure and reduce it into some components, etc. It's no fun and uses faculties that I want to rest when drawing. If I draw like this, what happens in my head is pretty much the same as when I work. I'd definitely not teach kids to draw this way. If anyone is interested in alternatives, check out Drawing on the Right…

I disagree, this is how I learned by myself (no book, no adults) and it was so much fun! The book just makes a system of it: you identify basic shapes to create an envelope then enjoy tracing beautiful lines. People used to say I have "a gift", that was annoying. So many times I offered to teach anybody (using a similar method as the book) but no one ever accepted. "See? It's not a gift, some people just want to put…

Well, I've put in the hours also- in a past life I studied art and traditional animation (hand-drawn) so I've learned a thing or two about framing. It has its place in a production setting where the emphasis is on finishing a drawing within a deadline, but as a teaching tool to show kids how to draw I'd really question its use.

For me the goal of teaching kids to draw should be to allow them to "unlock" their ability to communicate their experience of the world using form and colour. They should be shown the cave art from Lasceaux and Altamira, and inspired to look for their own internal representation of what their eyes can see and the ways to reproduce it on paper (or whatever medium). Not to follow closely someone else's set of lines.

So what if a kid learns to draw the same pretty butterfly, and only that one pretty buttefly, again and again and again, for ever? What has she achieved?

Here, this is the kind of art that should be taught to kids:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_painting#/media/File:Alta...

Re: How to Draw Animals (1930)

#105

Post by narag »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #104
narag wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, this is how I learned by myself (no book, no adults) and it was so much fun! The book just makes a system of it: you identify basic shapes to create an envelope then enjoy tracing beautiful lines. People used to say I have "a gift", that was annoying. So many times I offered to teach anybody (using a similar method as the book) but no one ever accepted. "See? It's not a gift, some people just want to put…

Well, I've put in the hours also- in a past life I studied art and traditional animation (hand-drawn) so I've learned a thing or two about framing. It has its place in a production setting where the emphasis is on finishing a drawing within a deadline, but as a teaching tool to show kids how to draw I'd really question its use. For me the goal of teaching kids to draw should be to allow them to "unlock" their ability…

I see the book more as a method than as a recipe collection. In my case it wasn't animals, it was spaceships and then motorbikes, lots of motorbikes.

As for the expression based goal, I'm sceptical, also from experience... not mine obviously, but close.

Re: How to Draw Animals (1930)

#106

Post by ZeikJT »

anonymfus wrote: post #100
codingdave wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many artists aren't trying to simplify an final subject. If anything, they come from the opposite direction - they don't worry at all about the final object - just look at it. Look at its lines. Mark out the major shapes. And there you have your abstraction. Now if you want to finish it, keep adding the next layer of detail. Mark out the smaller shapes. Mark out lines and endpoints. Start filling in some shading. The…

It's interesting to compare how theatre went from scripted shows to improv. Soon painters will ask audience members to draw some random shape for them to start.

I love doing this when doodling. I can start with nothing, but often it is more interesting to start with a scribble!

Re: How to Draw Animals (1930)

#107

Post by mntmoss »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #104
narag wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, this is how I learned by myself (no book, no adults) and it was so much fun! The book just makes a system of it: you identify basic shapes to create an envelope then enjoy tracing beautiful lines. People used to say I have "a gift", that was annoying. So many times I offered to teach anybody (using a similar method as the book) but no one ever accepted. "See? It's not a gift, some people just want to put…

Well, I've put in the hours also- in a past life I studied art and traditional animation (hand-drawn) so I've learned a thing or two about framing. It has its place in a production setting where the emphasis is on finishing a drawing within a deadline, but as a teaching tool to show kids how to draw I'd really question its use. For me the goal of teaching kids to draw should be to allow them to "unlock" their ability…

That's a cynical way of putting it. This kind of approach, repeated over many permutations until I have various arrangements of shapes available in muscle memory, makes for good mileage, relative to many other ways that one could practice drawing. It isn't the "only" technique, it just presents one more option.

And it is difficult to get beyond "trace these shapes" and start using abstractions of structure and proportion as a way of seeing. It's the same barrier that happens in gaining technique on a musical instrument: you can pick out some notes at the beginning, but if you want to feel really comfortable and have the fluidity to sight read or improvise, you have to start drilling scales. But once you have those skills available and try to compose, the problem is with having a stagnant reportoire, and then music theory drills gradually become more important.

But most kids do get stuck after learning a few songs.

Re: How to Draw Animals (1930)

#108

Post by [deleted] »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #103
dmos62 wrote: post #71

I don't know about you, but I hate this cerebral type drawing, where you take a subject, analyse, restructure and reduce it into some components, etc. It's no fun and uses faculties that I want to rest when drawing. If I draw like this, what happens in my head is pretty much the same as when I work. I'd definitely not teach kids to draw this way. If anyone is interested in alternatives, check out Drawing on the Right…

The question for me is whether someone who has learned to draw some animal in this way will then be able to draw the same animal in a different pose, from a different angle, in a different style, etc. My intution is that- no. These sort of techniques literally teach you were to place your lines. And that's the lines of a set of very specific drawings, and only those drawings, ever. It's like the difference between le…

[deleted]

Re: How to Draw Animals (1930)

#110

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

mntmoss wrote: post #107
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I've put in the hours also- in a past life I studied art and traditional animation (hand-drawn) so I've learned a thing or two about framing. It has its place in a production setting where the emphasis is on finishing a drawing within a deadline, but as a teaching tool to show kids how to draw I'd really question its use. For me the goal of teaching kids to draw should be to allow them to "unlock" their ability…

That's a cynical way of putting it. This kind of approach, repeated over many permutations until I have various arrangements of shapes available in muscle memory, makes for good mileage, relative to many other ways that one could practice drawing. It isn't the "only" technique, it just presents one more option. And it is difficult to get beyond "trace these shapes" and start using abstractions of structure and propor…

Sorry if my post comes across as cynical. I didn't mean it that way.
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