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Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

nytimes.com

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Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#101

Post by mrob »

docker_up wrote: post #9

I mean, let's be honest here: is this really a surprise? There's a business culture of dishonesty throughout the country that is unprecedented. Their food supply is poisoned by factories that simply don't care about life and only care about money. There have been articles about how cooking oil is recycled from waste, and how fish are fed feces instead of food and packed in ice from polluted waters. Fake milk, fake ba…

>fake eggs

I haven't seen any evidence that these were ever sold to the general public. It seems very unlikely to me, because eggs are cheap, and the alleged manufacturing process is labor intensive. If you're willing to take the risk making fakes there are many other more profitable options. See:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070518092606/http://www.tian.c...

https://www.hoax-slayer.net/fake-eggs-from-china/

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#102

Post by A2017U1 »

sundvor wrote: post #56
docker_up wrote: post #9

I mean, let's be honest here: is this really a surprise? There's a business culture of dishonesty throughout the country that is unprecedented. Their food supply is poisoned by factories that simply don't care about life and only care about money. There have been articles about how cooking oil is recycled from waste, and how fish are fed feces instead of food and packed in ice from polluted waters. Fake milk, fake ba…

This is real. Try buying the good types of baby formula in Australian supermarkets or pharmacies; you quickly learn the need to have a buffer of several lest your baby goes hungry. Scalpers go in and get what they can, then sell to China for a massive profit. If they're hit by the "max one per customer" they'll come in again and again until they're kicked out of the store. I feel bad for parents in China who can't tr…

And yet Australian dairy farmers constantly complain about low prices and going bankrupt. This has been going on for years. The complaint doesn't add up.

There's more than enough milk powder to go around, people are fighting over the premium ones.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#103

Post by seagullz »

Joakal wrote: post #98
whiddershins wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also assumed as countries became more rich/industrialized/advanced they would become more democratic, and more concerned with human rights, and less zero-sum adversarial in dealing with the United States. I think those hopes are no longer mainstream thinking in regards to China. How confident should we be about the prediction that China will adopt similar policies to the US in regards to the things you are mention…

USA democratic system is one step away from China's one party system: it's a two party system in USA which hasn't changed much for centuries. Europe, Australia, etc, have more than two parties in government. More choice, more representation.

“There is only one party in the United States, the Property Party … and it has two right wings: Republican and Democrat.”

― Gore Vidal

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#104

Post by A2017U1 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #60
tozeur wrote: post #47

Having been an expat traveled to over 25 countries, I can confidently say our natural world is fucked. Modern industrialism has given the third world too much manufacturing power. And they aren’t aware of the consequences and don’t care, because “fuckit I want kids toys and double ply toilet paper for my family too, not just the Westerners”

All currently rich "sophisticated" countries were in a similar phase when they were fighting their way out of poverty. Once countries get rich enough, they can afford to care about the environment. China seems to advance much faster than others did historically, so I'm hopeful.

All the rich countries consume a few Earth's worth of resources per person though, while visible things like plastic pollution and environmental regulations are generally solved, other issues like emissions are at unsustainable levels if everyone on Earth lived at the consumption level of the first world.

It's a very real contradiction the West has to face in the next few decades as these places modernize.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#105

Post by raxxorrax »

internet_user wrote: post #24
mrnobody_67 wrote: post #20

We also know the source of the plastic in the ocean... turns out it boils down to a very small number of rivers, in a very specific region of the world. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/90-of-plastic-polluti...

Tarrifs proportionate to percentage of pollutants in river outflow should work great. I've heard they say you tax things you don't want to see? why not tax pollution at the source, the rivers?

Tried that but the river had no money.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#106

Post by raxxorrax »

BurningFrog wrote: post #60
tozeur wrote: post #47

Having been an expat traveled to over 25 countries, I can confidently say our natural world is fucked. Modern industrialism has given the third world too much manufacturing power. And they aren’t aware of the consequences and don’t care, because “fuckit I want kids toys and double ply toilet paper for my family too, not just the Westerners”

All currently rich "sophisticated" countries were in a similar phase when they were fighting their way out of poverty. Once countries get rich enough, they can afford to care about the environment. China seems to advance much faster than others did historically, so I'm hopeful.

But someone in the first world does have a much larger ecological footprint compared to people in developing countries. So the problem isn't solved at all.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#107

Post by cltsang »

xfitm3 wrote: post #7
stevespang wrote: post #3

Not only banned flourocarbons, China and Asia are the main source of plastics entering the oceans through their rivers. Some are calling for environmental mercenaries, like Earth First! or GreenPeace, who will reek havoc on those who pollute or endanger the planet, ourselves included.

Yet lawmakers want to take away my plastic straws. Sad.

Every revolution starts small. Just because it's a baby step doesn't mean we shouldn't take it to move forward.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#108

Post by jonhendry18 »

internet_user wrote: post #12
docker_up wrote: post #9

I mean, let's be honest here: is this really a surprise? There's a business culture of dishonesty throughout the country that is unprecedented. Their food supply is poisoned by factories that simply don't care about life and only care about money. There have been articles about how cooking oil is recycled from waste, and how fish are fed feces instead of food and packed in ice from polluted waters. Fake milk, fake ba…

And not to mention dumping radioactive waste into steel/other metal. That's how cadium and lead end up in pencil cases - dump waste into consumer goods, and then ship them to your house. https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-growing-global... "India and China were the top sources of radioactive goods shipped to the U.S. through 2008, according to the Department of Homeland Security. Bartley, a metallurgist wh…

No, if cadmium and lead are turning up in pencil cases, it's probably because they were used in the paints or inks used for decoration.

Cadmium has been used for reds, yellows, and orange pigments since the 1840s. White lead pigments go back to the 4th century BC. Red lead pigments were used in ancient Rome. Yellow lead pigments (lead(II) chromate) were developed in the 1810s.

For the most part these have been phased out due to toxicity, but perhaps in China they are available cheap and in the case of cadmium pigments are really good, strongly colored, durable pigments, if you ignore the toxicity.

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#109

Post by chewz »

docker_up wrote: post #9

I mean, let's be honest here: is this really a surprise? There's a business culture of dishonesty throughout the country that is unprecedented. Their food supply is poisoned by factories that simply don't care about life and only care about money. There have been articles about how cooking oil is recycled from waste, and how fish are fed feces instead of food and packed in ice from polluted waters. Fake milk, fake ba…

> It's reprehensible.

You mean something like this - Exxon knew that fossil fuels were influencing the climate in 1978 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19986910

Re: Study Pinpoints Source of Banned Gas That Saps Ozone Layer: Eastern China

#110

Post by chewz »

roboys wrote: post #81
BurningFrog wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some say the genocides of Communism and the Cultural Revolution wiped out a lot of the old civilized ways and made the survivors callous.

We shouldn't forget the almost 100 years of Europeans pumping opium into their country.

British not European. Europe is a large place on a map.
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