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Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

nytimes.com

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Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#101

Post by acct1771 »

quotz wrote: post #61
cup wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And CIA seeded companies aren't?

USA is not a communist country, big difference. With political administration changes, also do foreign policy opinions change, along with whatever CIA has to do with foreign sovereignties. One USA regime pardons Manning, another jails him/her. One USA regime bombs Syria, another doesnt. Also, CIA seeded companies are just a few and none of the big ones. Palantir and Oculus are their biggest, not sure Oculus can spy o…

"How the CIA made Google"

https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/how-the-cia-made-goo...

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#103

Post by cfarm »

cup wrote: post #51
quotz wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the problem is that unlike the EU and US companies, Huawei is just the institutional arm of a communist dictatorship regime masked as a company.

And CIA seeded companies aren't?

It ultimately comes down to trust. For example, if the Chinese president decided to make a law that they can't demand data from Chinese companies any more, it's not like Trump would roll this back. Similar to Snowden, do you still trust our government isn't spying on us anymore?

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#104

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

quotz wrote: post #61
cup wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And CIA seeded companies aren't?

USA is not a communist country, big difference. With political administration changes, also do foreign policy opinions change, along with whatever CIA has to do with foreign sovereignties. One USA regime pardons Manning, another jails him/her. One USA regime bombs Syria, another doesnt. Also, CIA seeded companies are just a few and none of the big ones. Palantir and Oculus are their biggest, not sure Oculus can spy o…

It doesn't mean big companies are not in bed with the defenses industry/CIA. We have plenty of cases we know about and we also know you guys spy the on allies too. Even if the argument is all super powers do it, international vetting is a good way to put pressure on. If all countries join in, the money and influence is there.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#105

Post by bsder »

ISV_Damocles wrote: post #81
bsder wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I certainly can, because it would be hypocritical to be against Microsoft using IP rights as a bludgeon on Linux, Qualcomm on Apple, Oracle on Google, and then be upset with Huawei on anything but stealing trade secrets. There is a difference between developing technology and getting into a patent war vs wholesale copying of a product so completely that you actually duplicate the BUGS . Yeah, Huawei did that and Ci…

Copying a product to reproduce bugs as well is exactly what WINE is all about. When bugs are part of your interface for others to integrate with, then I don't believe they should be considered off limits to copy. Otherwise an incumbent company could intentionally put in bugs, sue competitors to prevent them from implementing them, and effectively take over an existing standard.

Huawei didn't copy to "interoperate", they literally fabbed the PCB's so that they were electrically identical to the Cisco PCBs (I believe they actually stole the gerbers), installed stolen code, and had both hardware and software bugs that were identical. And then sold the resulting "product" to end customers.

This was so identical that you could type syntactically incorrect commands and get buggy, broken behavior which pinpointed the exact internal release of code which had been stolen as Cisco had already fixed the bugs.

Sorry, that's theft, even if you disagree with IP protection.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#106

Post by tatersolid »

jessaustin wrote: post #91
deepnotderp wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't outsource semiconductor production to China, China actually currently lacks leading edge semiconductor capabilities

I don't buy into all of this anti-sinitic paranoia, but if suspicion of China-produced semiconductors were reasonable, why wouldn't suspicion of Taiwan-produced semiconductors also be reasonable?

Because Taiwan is a democracy on our side, and they’re just as suspicious of the Chinese Communists as good old ‘Mercia?

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#107

Post by olliej »

monocasa wrote: post #96
olliej wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem with that statement though is that's also what happens with every internet attached device people buy. At this point I would be surprised if an off the shelf IoT/IoS device didn't have at least one root login and RCE via a command line passed in a url.

I'm talking about the big iron that provides core infrastructure to corporate intranets, and the Internet at large. Comparing that to fly by night IoT shovelware is a bit disingenuous, IMO.

But look at the industry - "Big iron" (Cisco, network solutions?, juniper, dynalink ...) have all had these issues, over and over and over again.

Given the lack of subtlety and the wide spread existence of these same exploits/backdoors/bugs indicates there's a level of care that is missing in engineering of these devices that makes it plausible that this is by ignorance rather than malice.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#108

Post by acct1771 »

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #104
quotz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is not a communist country, big difference. With political administration changes, also do foreign policy opinions change, along with whatever CIA has to do with foreign sovereignties. One USA regime pardons Manning, another jails him/her. One USA regime bombs Syria, another doesnt. Also, CIA seeded companies are just a few and none of the big ones. Palantir and Oculus are their biggest, not sure Oculus can spy o…

It doesn't mean big companies are not in bed with the defenses industry/CIA. We have plenty of cases we know about and we also know you guys spy the on allies too. Even if the argument is all super powers do it, international vetting is a good way to put pressure on. If all countries join in, the money and influence is there.

Just realized: even if this happened, few, if any, revelations would make it to the public.

Re: Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and China

#109

Post by monocasa »

olliej wrote: post #107
monocasa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about the big iron that provides core infrastructure to corporate intranets, and the Internet at large. Comparing that to fly by night IoT shovelware is a bit disingenuous, IMO.

But look at the industry - "Big iron" (Cisco, network solutions?, juniper, dynalink ...) have all had these issues, over and over and over again. Given the lack of subtlety and the wide spread existence of these same exploits/backdoors/bugs indicates there's a level of care that is missing in engineering of these devices that makes it plausible that this is by ignorance rather than malice.

You know who's big iron routers haven't had the issue of continuously appearing explicit backdoors? Huawei.
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