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Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

bloomberg.com

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Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#101

Post by freeflight »

neximo64 wrote: post #68
0898 wrote: post #18

As Jon Gruber says: "Bloomberg, of course, is the publication that published “The Big Hack” in October — a sensational story alleging that data centers of Apple, Amazon, and dozens of other companies were compromised by China’s intelligence services." "The story presented no confirmable evidence at all, was vehemently denied by all companies involved, has not been confirmed by a single other publication (despite much…

How do you know for sure that the story is false? As you've mentioned Bloomberg hasn't corrected or retracted the story. Governments and companies have in the past denied things that have been true. Do you seriously think Huawei vehemently denying that it has backdoors in its technology makes it true all of a sudden?

Because an actual review by Super Micro did not find any chips like that [0]. Unlike the Bloomberg article, they also released which company did the audit, while whoever was behind the Bloomberg article couldn't even supply a sample of these chips to any other security researches.

Which was just very weird: On one hand you claim to have discovered this extraordinary thing trough physical evidence, yet when asked to produce said physical evidence, you can't. That alone was reason enough to trigger several red-flags.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-supermicro-chips/super-mi...

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#102

Post by threeseed »

negamax wrote: post #15

I can’t tell if this is true or an organized smear campaign against Huawei for monetary reasons.

I work for a telco and it's not about money.

With 5G the architecture is far more sophisticated and wide reaching. Companies are also looking at containerisation to go with it which means that vulnerabilities can do far more damage and stay hidden far longer.

Telcos are very much looking out for the interests of their users because once you're known as not being private and secure your business will be finished.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#103

Post by NotPaidToPost »

dang wrote: post #25
NotPaidToPost wrote: post #4

I'm sure that they're going to find out that some people at Huawei do not wash their hands after going to the toilet. Do you really want your data in those hands?

Please don't do this here.

What is 'this'? Sarcasm or not following groupthink?

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#104

Post by netsharc »

threeseed wrote: post #92
lmm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google, Apple etc are public companies. Huawei is state controlled. Citation needed - Huawei denies being under state control and there is no evidence of any direct state involvement in their day-to-day decisions. Maybe the Chinese state makes secret demands of them occasionally - but maybe the US state makes secret demands of Google/Apple occasionally.

US companies comply with laws governed by an independent judiciary and monitored by a free press. China has none of those.

Honestly, China is probably worse, but it's not like the USA is the shining beacon of freedom and democracy. Or is Brett Kavanaugh an honorable man?

We are all sort of guilty, we want our cheap goods (clothes, smartphones) and look away when the news talks about garment factories collapsing in Bangladesh, or when the Chinese phone factory workers commit suicide. I enjoy a high living standard, I don't think the way the West (me included) is living is sustainable and it's built on the blood and suffering of so many around the world (like the news the other day how electronic waste exported from Europe are poisoning Ghanaians), but well, isn't ignorance bliss...

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#105

Post by threeseed »

HenryBemis wrote: post #97
apexalpha wrote: post #85

>Vodafone said in the report that Huawei would need to remove or inhibit a so-called telnet service—a protocol used to control devices remotely—that the carrier said was a backdoor giving Huawei access to sensitive data. This seems like a diagnostic telnet port left open by accident. I'm very sceptical at this point at any American government or media finding a 'backdoor' in Huawei. A backdoor implies this is intenti…

I have been playing VikingMUD for more than a decade. I have been 'backdoor/hacking' it when I was using telnet to connect? I have been audit in IT/IT Audit/IT Security for quite a while. Having ability to telnet in is not a crime. We got firewalls for stuff like that. Even if it is not documented in whatever paperwork have been provided, it takes 5 seconds on a scan to pick this up. There also a bunch of IDS/IPS out…

I don't think you have an idea of how a telco works.

There isn't some giant firewall that every request goes through so you can say "block port 21" and your problem is fixed. Most of the equipment is talking directly to each other on many different private networks some of which may be managed by third parties. And as companies shift towards virtualised, container based architectures it can become harder as there is more complexity as companies transition.

And not sure if you've worked at a large company before but the idea that they have this army of highly skilled people who just make sure everything works perfectly isn't what happens.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#106

Post by freeflight »

threeseed wrote: post #90
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities." I know your heart is in the right place, but you could replace China with "The US" or "Russia" or "North Korea" or "colonial Britain" or almost any other country and it would be true. Those who wouldn't be worthy of the list are those who've never had the resources or opportunity…

[flagged]

Maybe your memory of history is very short, but the US pretty much championed a lot of the things you rail against China for in their "war on terror".

Torture camps and abducting people into them included, just like Internet-censorship (to prevent the spread of "terrorist propaganda") and pretty much the biggest and most sophisticated global surveillance system in human history, facilitated through the FiveEyes cooperation.

A lot of the things China does on a domestic basis, the US has been doing for decades on a global basis. The absurd thing about this all being: They all use the same reasoning to sell this authoritarian creep to the population, the "fight against terrorism".

And people gobble it up like it's the most normal thing ever, regardless of them being Chinese, US American or British.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#107

Post by tomp »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #67
O_H_E wrote: post #45

I was skeptical about "boycotting" China and Huawei for a long time; just thought that they make cheap phones, and innovative tech, so why not. I changed 180 degrees when I started learning about the growing Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities. China is growing its economic dominance very quickly. They are gaining man…

"Chinese influence, how politically corrupt they are, and the excessive violence and human rights violations exercised against minorities." I know your heart is in the right place, but you could replace China with "The US" or "Russia" or "North Korea" or "colonial Britain" or almost any other country and it would be true. Those who wouldn't be worthy of the list are those who've never had the resources or opportunity…

All that is true.

Howver.

Given the choice, I would much prefer to live in the US (or US-dominated/sponsored West) than in China, Russia, Middle East etc. US has better economic, legal and political systems. It doesn't discriminate against foreigners or religions, allows foreigner people and companies to compete in the markets and make enormous amounts of money, it has one of the most transparent and stable political systems in the world (which allows immigrants to participate in partially, and 2nd generation immigrants completely).

Sure, the US is not perfect, but that's why I support the US and am in favor of boycotting China (and other less-free countries).

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#108

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

threeseed wrote: post #77
logifail wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everything they publish should be treated with skepticism until they [..] provide evidence that it was true Call me a cynic, but I'd hope all of us would want to take that approach with every source.

If we all followed your advice the world will be a truly awful place to live. Given how critical journalism is to the fabric of society I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt wherever possible.

It's possible to value journalism without assuming it's accurate.

For example, one can subscribe to a local newspaper, but also hold them accountable for stories that are weak on supporting evidence.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#109

Post by pizzapill »

meragrin wrote: post #87
pizzapill wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty obvious how the EU will deal with it. I once read the official statement of the German government that there is no way the US is spying on us while walking past dozens of huge radomes on a US base close to ESA hq. I read the news when it was discovered that our intelligence service regularly updated NSA selectors to spy on internet users and never looked into what they were updating. Suddenly they "found out"…

ESA headquarters is listed as in Paris. I'm not seeing any US bases near Paris. Orly used to be a US base but was shutdown in 1967 and is now a civilian airport.

Sorry I meant the European Space Operation Centre (ESOC) in Darmstadt, Germany. Its almost neighboring the dagger complex [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagger_Complex] of the US INSCOM/NSA.

Re: Vodafone Found Hidden Backdoors in Huawei Equipment

#110

Post by danarmak »

chopin wrote: post #96
danarmak wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A backdoor is a deliberate remote-access vulnerability that the creator intended to use for illegitimate access. The same code, but intentional, is a bug and vulnerability, but not a backdoor. Same security implications, but a big difference wrt. culpability, appropriate punishment, and expectations of future behavior.

>A backdoor is a deliberate remote-access vulnerability that the creator intended to use for illegitimate access. I beg to differ. A backdoor gives access which the legitimate owner cannot control. I don't mind any intention.

It's true that "backdoor" is sometimes used as you defined. I feel that some usage, like this article, implies a deliberate backdoor. But you're right that it's an implication and not an explicit statement.

One reason that I feel this implication here is that an 'unintentional' backdoor vulnerability can be exploited by any attacker, but the article focuses on this backdoor's exploitability by Huawei, and by implication their untrustworthiness.

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