Live data from Hacker News

The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

jamesgmartin.center

101–110 of 241 posts

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#101
post #3

It seems like there’s a gap in the market for a hard-nosed, teaching-first university. A place full of passionate professors with high standards. A place where high school valedictorians work their ass off for a B. A place where you feel your best will never be good enough because the standards are impossible... until, one day, you get an A. And that grade MEANS something. And after four years, the students walk out…

...and after four years, the students walk out into the wide world and find that employers often think someone with A's from some random easy state college is better than someone with B's from the hard high standards school.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#102
post #61
post #6

I believe HN has both right and left leaning individuals, but I wonder if most people would condemn the practice of professors being ousted from schools for daring to challenge their students' "safe space" notions and microagressing them? This is not an isolated event and universities skew heavily in one direction politically. Is it universally agreeable that the end of healthy debate in college is a really, really b…

I think there is a large amount of misunderstanding (and misinformation) about what safe spaces and trigger warnings are actually all about. They have also been subject to a certain amount of .. inflation? But the core ideas are important. "Trigger" originally referred specifically to PTSD. There is a small number of students, such as women who have experienced sexual assault, for whom the subject is more than merely…

[deleted]

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#103
post #18

I have read probably 4 or 5 of these articles, written by professors/teachers, claiming to have been punished for their speech. 2 common threads about them. The first is that they rarely discuss specifics about what positions or what opinions got them censured. The second is that the comments section is typically full of drive by commenters who aren't responding to the content of the post in particular but to the ide…

I share your observations and raise it with another one - has anybody noticed that these sorts of things only happen at elite institutions? I never hear about this sort of thing (about “chilled free speech”) at my alma mater

You didn't follow the Evergreen scandal [1]?

Bret Weinstein, who is as progressive as they come, was driven out of the university because he ventured to say that having a day where whites were to be excluded from attending school was a bad idea.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreen_State_College#2017_p...

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#105
post #53
post #28

More and more this safe space bullshit is infiltrating the former bastions of free-thought. It is a disturbing trend where it no longer matters if someone can convey a counter argument to any given point of view, the mere presence of a point of view contrary to the modern anti-liberal left world view - even if purely rhetorical - breaches the safe space contract and justifies censuring or even punishment. It will onl…

On the free speech front, I'll note that at the moment, the right seems to care more about it than the left, or at least it pays more respect to its dressings. Whether this changes once the power balance tips is a whole different story.

The right has certainly not defended free speech. The same people who complain about the free speech to have the right to be paid tens of thousands of dollars to criticize weaker groups complain when football players decide to kneel during a national anthem. So free speech has little to do with it. But yes, the right has deployed free speech as an effective political weapon, while the left is all over the map.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#106
post #18

I have read probably 4 or 5 of these articles, written by professors/teachers, claiming to have been punished for their speech. 2 common threads about them. The first is that they rarely discuss specifics about what positions or what opinions got them censured. The second is that the comments section is typically full of drive by commenters who aren't responding to the content of the post in particular but to the ide…

Why should specifics of what is said matter if the point is free speech?

He is claiming that this is a free speech issue. That doesn't make it true. He alludes to the complaints of a few students but we don't know what that complaint actually is. It could be free speech or it could be that he is an asshole. We don't know.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#107
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the linked docs? They're pretty compelling. You cannot say it doesn't discuss specifics.

No, there is nothing specific in linked docs. It seems administration decided to get rid of him, appointed two faculty members to form committee and didn't followed their own bylaws. The tiny glimpse in the doc is that there were some low student ranking in 2018 and few people had negative experience interacting with him - but nothing specific. As per the doc, no one has made any formal complaints. It's however quite…

> I think it's a clever twist of the word "authority"

There is overwhelming evidence that established science is correct, and the scientists are using objectively powerful techniques to establish truth.

However, the mechanisms society at large uses to test and assimilate that knowledge are exactly the same as those used for religious authority. The major difference is that rituals invoking science tend to correlate much more closely with getting the outcome we expect than rituals invoking the gods.

Picking on doctors as representatives of the scientific establishment, there isn't much difference from an average person's perspective going to a doctor or a faith healer. Person has a problem, they go to an authority figure, things they don't understand happen, and then hopefully they get a good outcome - no guarantee though. From the perspective of the patient's decision making process, there is no difference.

What is different is the advice from the social network will (hopefully) be 'don't see the faith healer; see the doctor'. That is the only difference in practice between the two decisions.

Monitoring and criticising how the underlying mechanisms work is a perfectly reasonable line of inquiry and place to dissent. There are interesting ethical questions here about who needs to do what to fulfill their ethical requirements between what the patient's responsibilities are given their limited understanding, the social network's responsibility given their third-party status and the authority figure's role in how to represent themselves.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#108
post #38
post #11

I haven't figured out a good opinion on the controversies of trigger warnings and safe spaces. It might be a brief pendulum swing. I think that we all could stand to show more sensitivity to everyone else, and I don't know whether that would be enough. But I've never met any 12th-grader who is so knowledgeable and wise that frosh year at a proper college shouldn't shake up their developing mind, and challenge much of…

Part of the thing about the safe space movement at universities is that it's happening at just about the same time that universities have just about completed their transition from educational institutions into corporations. If you think about them as any other corporation, they are just doing their best to keep the customers coming. Would you want to pay money to faculty who challenges the consumer's assumptions, or…

Very astute observation.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#109
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the linked docs? They're pretty compelling. You cannot say it doesn't discuss specifics.

No, there is nothing specific in linked docs. It seems administration decided to get rid of him, appointed two faculty members to form committee and didn't followed their own bylaws. The tiny glimpse in the doc is that there were some low student ranking in 2018 and few people had negative experience interacting with him - but nothing specific. As per the doc, no one has made any formal complaints. It's however quite…

Science and religion are not comparable. A key difference is that science is stronger when people question its authority. Science does not require faith but scepticism. That is the whole point of the scientific method! Meanwhile religion requires faith.

This sounds like a good question that should promote a good discussion and would probably end with a cohort of people far better equipped to argue the case for science in a way that shows how the science vs religion debate is not even worth having rather than people who engage pointlessly in a a faith based discussion.

Re: The End of Being a Duke Professor and What It Means for the Future of Higher Ed

#110
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the linked docs? They're pretty compelling. You cannot say it doesn't discuss specifics.

No, there is nothing specific in linked docs. It seems administration decided to get rid of him, appointed two faculty members to form committee and didn't followed their own bylaws. The tiny glimpse in the doc is that there were some low student ranking in 2018 and few people had negative experience interacting with him - but nothing specific. As per the doc, no one has made any formal complaints. It's however quite…

He did not choose a good argument in that case, but, speaking as someone with liberal leanings, I think that overall he has a point here. I was taken aback by how the quoted questions from the Personality Inventory all take a nuanced issue and reduce it to a simple up/down score.

These questions were, of course, picked for discussion by the author himself, but as they are apparently 50% of the questions evaluating the Values facet of the Openness trait, I do not have to accept the author's claim, that the rest are like it, to think that at least this facet is not being well evaluated.

Post reply on HN