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The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

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Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#101

Post by justsee »

manigandham wrote: post #71
justsee wrote: post #47

I think the privacy crowd drawn to Brave couldn't care less what the (current) digital advertising industry wants. Anyone who's been involved in the current ad-tech industry knows it's a total tire fire of fraud, technical incompetence and deep hostility to end-users. Brave's model is very interesting and also a threat to the current ad-tech cesspool, so there should be no surprise to see attempts to misinform people…

If you want advertisers, you need to care about what the industry wants. Obviously that's for Brave to deal with, not the users, but showing ads for money is an ad network. Microtransactions have been tried many times. I spent half a million testing it. Didn't work because of user behavior. And unless users are buying with their own money, it's just converting the BAT they earn from ads into BAT they pay the publishe…

Brave's an open-source, privacy-respecting browser with a digital wallet baked in.

The microtransaction opportunities that are opened up by having such a low-friction economic layer native to the browser is what's particularly interesting about Brave.

Even the criticisms of Brave's microtransaction potential are encouraging, because they're usually unserious, rely on hand-waving references to previous weak and incomparable attempts and appear to emanate from accounts that have an agenda beyond good-faith technical / behavioural evaluation.

I understand the need to incorporate an optional ad network within it, and already see that it's a far superior model compared to the current ad-tech ecosystem that it can and should replace.

It remains to be seen whether it can get commercial traction but considering how quickly and deeply the mood has shifted against Google / Facebook / the current ad-tech ecosystem you'd have to say there has been no better time to trial a new approach to funding content on the web.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#102

Post by RandomBacon »

atomical wrote: post #90
RandomBacon wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are websites that sell static ad space and don't use third-party tracking tools. I'm not saying that is the answer, or that Brave/BAT is not the answer. I'm just saying if battery life is what you care about, there are better alternatives.

Brave doesn't block those ads.

Okay. Neither does my "suggested options".

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#103

Post by drngdds »

woodandsteel wrote: post #50

There's a lot of negativity here about brave. But the fact is that the web desperately needs a new financial model, and as far as I can tell brave is a lot further along on that than any other project. Would anyone like to argue that the present web financial model is fine? Or would anyone like to point to someone else who has an alternative that would be workable and is anywhere near usable? And let met add one more…

Here's a crazy new financial model for you: make things and sell them for money.

Snark aside, independent artists already do this with Patreon and digital music services.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#104

Post by tssva »

atomical wrote: post #78
tssva wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking someone's means of income and then telling them they can get some of it back if they change their business model so revenues now flow through you isn't opt-in economic activity. It is extorted economic activity.

A lot of that income is from tracking users, storing that data, and then selling it. I don't feel one ounce of sympathy for them.

Your argument is basically two wrongs make a right.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#105

Post by justsee »

arcticbull wrote: post #96
justsee wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually that's not true. An earlier version of the browser let early adopter users direct where Brave's own marketing budget of BAT tokens was sent to, including sites that hadn't yet signed up. If those sites didn't sign up, the tokens would eventually go back into the marketing budget pool of tokens, to be distributed to other sites (not to Brave). That's very different to the mischaraterisation you mention above,…

Sounds like it wasn’t much of a mischaracterization if there was a bunch of outrage and then they backtracked completely.

The mischaraterization, which you seem determined to double-down on, was an attempt to paint Brave as a fraudulent company trying to build a 'patreon for thieves'.

Any honest onlooker doing the barest of research would understand the absurdity of the claim, but the amplification of that mischaracterisation was (and is) clearly aimed at herd programming to try to suppress Brave's growth.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#106

Post by manigandham »

justsee wrote: post #101
manigandham wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want advertisers, you need to care about what the industry wants. Obviously that's for Brave to deal with, not the users, but showing ads for money is an ad network. Microtransactions have been tried many times. I spent half a million testing it. Didn't work because of user behavior. And unless users are buying with their own money, it's just converting the BAT they earn from ads into BAT they pay the publishe…

Brave's an open-source, privacy-respecting browser with a digital wallet baked in. The microtransaction opportunities that are opened up by having such a low-friction economic layer native to the browser is what's particularly interesting about Brave. Even the criticisms of Brave's microtransaction potential are encouraging, because they're usually unserious, rely on hand-waving references to previous weak and incomp…

Microtransactions are about user behavior, not tech. We had a low-friction experience with a browser extension and that's been possible for several years. Convincing people to value content, judge the price, and spend their own money is the real challenge.

And if people aren't spending their own money then it's just an ad network in the browser to replace an ad network on the page. Not revolutionary and open to all the same concerns of ads today. 99% of people don't notice "privacy", they care about intrusiveness and annoying experiences. That's what's visible so having an ad is the same effect for them regardless of how it's delivered.

If you want to judge my perspective then read this first [1]. It's great to have alternatives and I'm as interested as you to see how this experiment works out.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19593812

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#107

Post by dcbadacd »

katzgrau wrote: post #100
atomical wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of that income is from tracking users, storing that data, and then selling it. I don't feel one ounce of sympathy for them.

You're lumping all publishers together. Brave blocks static banner ads whether they track you or not - whether they're served by an ad network or not. Whether it's delivered by a for-profit or non-profit. Brave's stated model is disingenuous at best.

Which non-ad-network ads Brave blocks though? Are there any non-profit ad-networks??

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#108

Post by xrd »

atomical wrote: post #65
xrd wrote: post #61

Brave got to where it is because Brendan Eich is the face of it. Everything I've seen about the browser seems tied to him, and generally his interactions with people seem testy and confrontational. It's ironic that Google owns the browser and ad network. Brave wants to change that by creating a new browser and ad network. But until they can make brave less tied to him it'll be hard.

You could say the same about Apple and Steve Jobs. Please post legitimate criticisms for Brave/BAT. Your comment reads like a hit piece.

I stand by that I wrote 100%. He is a polarizing figure and that is impacting Brave. The early adopters they need care about this facet of the founder. If you don't recall his financial support of that controversial anti-gay ballot measure in California, you are either being ignorant or dishonest, I'm saying the people they need to adopt Brave care about this, not just me.

Full disclosure: I'm working on an alternative to Brave in the crypto space. But I'm not shilling it here.

But speaking about disclosure. What I find interesting about discussions of Brave are that many people chime in here without specifying their positions. I don't have BAT nor shorts on them. Do you have positions, do you own BAT or have a financial interest in their success?

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#109

Post by arcticbull »

justsee wrote: post #105
arcticbull wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it wasn’t much of a mischaracterization if there was a bunch of outrage and then they backtracked completely.

The mischaraterization, which you seem determined to double-down on, was an attempt to paint Brave as a fraudulent company trying to build a 'patreon for thieves'. Any honest onlooker doing the barest of research would understand the absurdity of the claim, but the amplification of that mischaracterisation was (and is) clearly aimed at herd programming to try to suppress Brave's growth.

I can see how you might view it that way. On the other hand, let's say Chrome started replacing all non-Adsense ads on every site you visited with Adsense ads -- without notifying the webmaster no less. Then, if the content creator decided they'd like their cut of the revenue, they had to sign up for Adsense. And if they didn't, Google would just pocket it 90 days later. I don't think you'd be as sympathetic to Google in this situation? Would the courts? Just because it's a small up-start business, or just because it's crypto related, doesn't make it exempt from fair dealing.

I'm not saying its a Patreon for thieves, and that doesn't make what they did less unsavory IMO.

Re: The Brave Browser Will Pay You to Surf the Web

#110

Post by quickthrower2 »

Wehrdo wrote: post #89
quickthrower2 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a neat idea. Could be a YC startup idea. A subscription service that gives you access to all the paywall content let’s say 10/month for 50 articles and you don’t even click a button just read. Rather than seperate paywalls, ads etc.

Are you describing Blendle[0]? Access to paywalled content on a pay-per-article basis. [0] https://launch.blendle.com/

I didn't know about them, but looks like they are doing exactly this.
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