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Model 3 Lease Available

tesla.com

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Re: Model 3 Lease Available

#101

Post by londons_explore »

kylecordes wrote: post #39
ABeeSea wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way any of these model 3s end up in an autonomous ride share. Especially with only cameras and no LIDAR. I guess it does give them cover for not offering the option to buy at the end of the lease. Wouldn’t be surprised if they reverse this in 2-3 years.

Sometimes I wonder if the much-ballyhooed short-sellers actually work in the Tesla marketing department :-) I know that companies get a lot of flak for saying hedged things. But Tesla could really benefit from some hedging. This pronouncement in absolute terms that there will be no lease-end buyout is ridiculous. It depends entirely on future factors unknown today (to us or Tesla), whether they will give customers th…

Pretty much no other industry uses old hardware for rentals.

Go and try to rent a 10 year old car... Can't find any? Turns out while individuals are perfectly happy to drive a 10 year old car, companies prefer no more than 1-2 year old fleets. As well as being more reliable, the service users don't want to find a cassette player in the car, nor years of grime on every surface.

Re: Model 3 Lease Available

#102

Post by votepaunchy »

ggm wrote: post #86
thematt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you said could be used to describe longs as well, with incentives just aligned in the opposite direction.

Longs tend to own things. Shorts tend to destroy value to acquire it cheap. they don't currently hold it, they're seeking profit by securing it under value. Longs seek to profit from its existence and success. I don't see these as fully symmetric. I see them as oppositional, and indeed a long will do the things which improve their position. But since thats constructive not destructive, there appears to me to be a use…

> What did I get wrong here?

Your assumption that corporate PR is “emerging reality”. Shorts are also capable of revealing reality.

Re: Model 3 Lease Available

#103

Post by ggm »

votepaunchy wrote: post #102
ggm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Longs tend to own things. Shorts tend to destroy value to acquire it cheap. they don't currently hold it, they're seeking profit by securing it under value. Longs seek to profit from its existence and success. I don't see these as fully symmetric. I see them as oppositional, and indeed a long will do the things which improve their position. But since thats constructive not destructive, there appears to me to be a use…

> What did I get wrong here? Your assumption that corporate PR is “emerging reality”. Shorts are also capable of revealing reality.

Yes they are and information is useful, but do you think all shorts are informative? and do you think these shorts are? I think these shorts are opportunistic and seek an advantage not an informed position. The longs by and large in Tesla believe about an industrial transformation.

I think musk is a very flawed capitalist, but I think Tesla is interesting as a company. Panasonic is huge. Their decision to invest in the battery plant speaks to me more than the shorts do. Likewise the Chinese decision to invest in the gigafactory. These are not short positions, they are major long-term capital investment which is continuing.

Re: Model 3 Lease Available

#104

Post by mirkules »

jedberg wrote: post #26
bagels wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not on the website anymore. Do you have a source?

The linked page says "As a result, Model 3 Standard will now be a software-limited version of the Standard Plus, and we are taking it off the online ordering menu, which just means that to get it, customers will need to call us or visit any one of the several hundred Tesla stores."

I will never understand the “software-limited” versions of anything. Actually, that’s too soft. I hate software-limited things.

The hardware is already built and delivered, and the company literally loses nothing by allowing their customers to use it.

It reminds me of Verizon back in the early days of bluetooth when they wanted to charge customers to unlock it.

I will always avoid doing business with these kinds of companies.

Re: Model 3 Lease Available

#105

Post by bryanlarsen »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #87
bryanlarsen wrote: post #60

Contrary to the standard short story, there must still be significant demand for the 3 if Tesla is raising prices rather than lowering them. Yes, the $35k model 3 is still technically available, but obviously they don't want to sell them. If there was little demand, they would rather sell a $35k 3 at no profit than idle their factory.

I feel like this is a bit of a strawman. If there's a "standard" short story, it's that the demand for high end Model 3s is too low, and the company can't profitably be run on the margins of SR/SR+ or even MR alone. I'm not sure I believe it (Sandy Munro for instance seems pretty optimistic that a competent manufacturer could profitably make the $35k M3), but misrepresenting the argument does nobody any favors.

The "standard" internet comment is that Tesla will be bankrupt in 2 weeks. :)

Re: Model 3 Lease Available

#106

Post by nradov »

ggm wrote: post #86
thematt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you said could be used to describe longs as well, with incentives just aligned in the opposite direction.

Longs tend to own things. Shorts tend to destroy value to acquire it cheap. they don't currently hold it, they're seeking profit by securing it under value. Longs seek to profit from its existence and success. I don't see these as fully symmetric. I see them as oppositional, and indeed a long will do the things which improve their position. But since thats constructive not destructive, there appears to me to be a use…

Shorts don't tend to destroy value. That's just a paranoid fantasy invented by incompetent managers to justify their own failures.

Re: Model 3 Lease Available

#107

Post by ggm »

nradov wrote: post #106
ggm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Longs tend to own things. Shorts tend to destroy value to acquire it cheap. they don't currently hold it, they're seeking profit by securing it under value. Longs seek to profit from its existence and success. I don't see these as fully symmetric. I see them as oppositional, and indeed a long will do the things which improve their position. But since thats constructive not destructive, there appears to me to be a use…

Shorts don't tend to destroy value. That's just a paranoid fantasy invented by incompetent managers to justify their own failures.

Do you include shorts who go out there trashing the name and then wind up wrong? A bunch of tesla shorts have made an industry of being very very vocal. Musk 420'ing on-air has nothing to do with the underlying value of his company or stock in "real" terms, it has a lot to do with temporary risk value, but the shorts played it into ".. see .. evidence tesla is tanking what kind of CEO smokes pot it must be valueless we were right.. " talking.

I don't think all shorts do this. I do think a lot of Musk shorts (relatively speaking) do this.

Re: Model 3 Lease Available

#108

Post by nradov »

ggm wrote: post #107
nradov wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shorts don't tend to destroy value. That's just a paranoid fantasy invented by incompetent managers to justify their own failures.

Do you include shorts who go out there trashing the name and then wind up wrong? A bunch of tesla shorts have made an industry of being very very vocal. Musk 420'ing on-air has nothing to do with the underlying value of his company or stock in "real" terms, it has a lot to do with temporary risk value, but the shorts played it into ".. see .. evidence tesla is tanking what kind of CEO smokes pot it must be valueless…

You haven't provided any evidence that those shorts destroy value.

Re: Model 3 Lease Available

#109

Post by jonfw »

londons_explore wrote: post #98
jonfw wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"we can't actually afford to make a 35000 car, but Elon promised it, so we are going to attempt to prove him right by just software-limiting a more expensive car and than hoping nobody buys it so we don't lose money" How I imagine some meeting at Tesla went when they decided this was a legitimate solution.

If I were in the market for this, I'd be buying the 35k model with the expectation that the modding community will unlock those extra features in short order. In fact I'd bet that all the features on the car are a set of Boolean flags on every vehicle and as soon as you have a shell on the thing, changing the flags to enable any feature will be simple. Add a simple Cron to keep the flags set as you like even after an…

I wonder what the impact on resale value would be
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