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Women: Learn to Program This Summer

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Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#101

Post by WeakLanguage »

commandlinefan wrote: post #29
rosterface wrote: post #3

I recently completed a very difficult job search where I unfortunately had to lean on my ethnicity (I’m Mexican) to pass through very overt screening against white men. I was shocked to hear from multiple companies, large and small, that they did not want men and white men in particular. Now we see a YC co-founder giving 40 women $9000 to learn to program. Where does it end? I was really sad that while I personally c…

I'm a white man, and sometimes I fear that the best thing I ever did for my son was give him Hispanic heritage through his mother.

I'm in the same situation.

I've already resigned myself that I must tell him to always check those minority boxes and he may want to consider only using his mother's surname on his resume, instead of the traditional dual surname he legally has (Example: Lopez, instead of Smith Lopez).

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#102

Post by menacingly »

navigatesol wrote: post #98
fzeroracer wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great way to get a company to instantly reject you at the interview step if they have one or fired shortly after being hired. Because, you know, most companies look up the profile of candidates on LinkedIn, social media etc. Unless you actually consider yourself transgender, you would quickly be caught and removed just as quickly.

> Unless you actually consider yourself transgender, you would quickly be caught and removed just as quickly. In the current cultural zeitgeist it'd be unimaginable to see someone get fired because they didn't conform to someone's rules of "transgender enough" based on their social media profile. This is both the beauty and the irony of said zeitgeist; make all the rules you want, can't stop someone from playing.

And let's not forget the very real cases where someone may be more comfortable telling a bootcamp something about themselves than _the entire world_ on social media

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#103

Post by txsoftwaredev »

rubicon33 wrote: post #71
nck4222 wrote: post #50

I'm trying to figure out on what side of the debate I fall on this one. On the one hand, women have obviously been disadvantaged in many ways, for many years, which is wrong. The gender disparity in software development is well documented, and should be fixed. No one should be discouraged from learning, or opportunities denied because of gender. On the other hand, a for-profit company deciding to offer free services…

> The gender disparity in software development is well documented, and should be fixed. No one should be discouraged from learning, or opportunities denied because of gender. I can tell you why. In part, it's explicit sexism and goal keeping from men, sure. But a far bigger reason there are less women in tech? Step into any engineering course at a 4 year university. Come back and tell me how many women where in your…

"In part, it's explicit sexism..."

And the same could be said for other fields. Step in to a construction site/auto dealership/mechanic shop/sports field and tell me how many women you see. Are all those fields dominated by sexist men as well?

And for men, how many are nurses/teachers/social workers/counselors/human resources vs women? Are all those fields dominated by sexist women?

Could it be that women enjoy jobs with more human interaction and men are more content to sit in front of a computer screen?

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#104

Post by manfredo »

andonisus wrote: post #86
rubicon33 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The gender disparity in software development is well documented, and should be fixed. No one should be discouraged from learning, or opportunities denied because of gender. I can tell you why. In part, it's explicit sexism and goal keeping from men, sure. But a far bigger reason there are less women in tech? Step into any engineering course at a 4 year university. Come back and tell me how many women where in your…

What if the underlying reason is that women, as a whole, are less interested in Science/Engineering than men are?

This is a socially unacceptable explanation in many areas with large tech industries.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#105

Post by Pfhreak »

grondilu wrote: post #88
Pfhreak wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't programming a skill that can be learned alone in a fairly straightforward manner? No? Stuff like pointers, for loops, threads, interface design, data structures, idempotency, source control, working on a linux command line, etc. all present reasonably challenging roadblocks for a burgeoning developer, and I think many of us benefited from having someone around to help walk us through this the first time.

> working on a linux command line, That's an interesting example. Sure, I was initiated to the Unix command line at the University, but it was just that : an initiation. I got hooked quickly though so I was driven to learn the rest all by myself (or rather, with the help of the linux community online). I'm sure it's more or less the same for most linux nerds. I may have bought one or two books about linux though, but…

I was introduced to Linux in college and I thought, "Neat. Now please put me back into Visual Studio where the real coding happens." I was not hooked.

It wasn't until I used Linux professionally that I started to really respect (and enjoy) using the environment. And even then it wasn't until I saw another human using it efficiently. It's one thing to read about how useful it is, it's another thing to struggle with a problem and have someone show you how you could solve your exact problem.

Once I had that connection with another human/mentor, seeing my specific problem solved, that's what hooked me. I don't think I could have gotten there with toy/educational examples online/in books.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#106

Post by sound1 »

seancoleman wrote: post #28

My girlfriend, a nurse of 10+ years, just started learning to code on her own, built her first (basic) website ( https://www.nataliepeterson.dev ) and is applying to Lambda School already. I sent this to her this morning and she was elated. Programs like this really work.

"hi cutie" lol... someone knows how to market well

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#107

Post by llama052 »

manfredo wrote: post #25
rosterface wrote: post #3

I recently completed a very difficult job search where I unfortunately had to lean on my ethnicity (I’m Mexican) to pass through very overt screening against white men. I was shocked to hear from multiple companies, large and small, that they did not want men and white men in particular. Now we see a YC co-founder giving 40 women $9000 to learn to program. Where does it end? I was really sad that while I personally c…

I can confirm your observations. At my company we have a couple policies. 1. We only accept applicstions from candidate from non-traditional backgrounds if they're diverse. Diverse is defined as any of the following: women, black, Hispanic, or native American - maybe also veterans but I'm not sure. Non-traditional background means coming from a coding boot camp, or majoring in a non-computing related field. I think a…

Is it fair to claim equal opportunity when you give more opportunities to other people?

You are ultimately selecting the factors which could affect the outcome of that opportunity.

How is that not discrimination? How do you pick and choose what you consider diverse?

When you select the factors you're ultimately not an equal opportunity employer anymore in my opinion.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#109

Post by seancoleman »

sound1 wrote: post #106
seancoleman wrote: post #28

My girlfriend, a nurse of 10+ years, just started learning to code on her own, built her first (basic) website ( https://www.nataliepeterson.dev ) and is applying to Lambda School already. I sent this to her this morning and she was elated. Programs like this really work.

"hi cutie" lol... someone knows how to market well

I forgot she added this for me. She doesn't know I posted this here and thinks I'm her only visitor still. She'll be embarrassed, but I told her if she's not embarrassed with her first version, she's shipping too late.

Re: Women: Learn to Program This Summer

#110

Post by manfredo »

jordigh wrote: post #84
manfredo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm your observations. At my company we have a couple policies. 1. We only accept applicstions from candidate from non-traditional backgrounds if they're diverse. Diverse is defined as any of the following: women, black, Hispanic, or native American - maybe also veterans but I'm not sure. Non-traditional background means coming from a coding boot camp, or majoring in a non-computing related field. I think a…

If it's any consolation about how we underrepresented but unqualified idiots are getting hired everywhere, I've interviewed with Mozilla a couple of times now, selecting the "yep, I'm Mexican" tickbox, and this hasn't gotten me any more hired there either of the times I've interviewed. I must be really awful if I can't get hired as a Mexican, eh?

This misrepresentating my company's approach. We don't hire underqualified applicants if they're diverse. Rather we deliberately make it harder for white and Asian men to get to the on-site.
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