Cockpit voice recorder of Lion Air jet depicts pilots' frantic search for fix

Post by vultour » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 11:08 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #74

michaelt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll note in that video, the left-hand pilot has a headset on, presumably the right-hand pilot does too. Headsets are seen in other videos [1] of the cockpit. So even if the spinning trim wheels make noise, they may not have heard it. (My google image search shows some pilots wearing two-ear headsets, some wearing one-ear headsets, some wearing two-ear headsets with side not on their ear, and some not wearing heads…

I don't understand do you think they're listening to music or something? Having a headset on doesn't stop you hearing noises in a cockpit. How did you think all the other verbal alarms and callouts worked if they can't hear anything?

Post by bookofjoe » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 11:11 AM UTC

mjburgess wrote: post #65

bookofjoe wrote: post #55

Best book I've ever read on the root cause ("tight coupling") of accidents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_Accidents From its Wikipedia entry: >"Normal Accidents: Living with High-Risk Technologies" is a 1984 book by Yale sociologist Charles Perrow, which provides a detailed analysis of complex systems from a sociological perspective. It was the first to "propose a framework for characterizing complex technolog…

I think this perspective on accidents needs far more emphasis. Many accidents are unavoidable and not the result of some person failing to do some thing. The world isn't a story, people don't have much agency, and events do not happen because people want them to. These "narrative explanations" are mythological just-so stories that attribute the complex interaction of systems to individuals, organizations, etc. in nai…

Post by rusk » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 11:21 AM UTC

bookofjoe wrote: post #105

rusk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but, its no excuse for relaxing operational rigor. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. And if you repeatedly ignore the lessons of experience then you are to blame .

"History is written by the victors."—attributed to Winston Churchill. https://www.quora.com/Winston-Churchill-said-that-history-wa...

Post by icebraining » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 11:31 AM UTC

acqq wrote: post #66

icebraining wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they didn't know about the MCAS, they still knew the plane had had an uncontrolled-dive problem from an unknown cause. How is it responsible to fly it without understanding the issue? Boeing is still fully culpable, but the airline should have debugged the issue before using the plane again.

> How is it responsible to fly it without understanding the issue? There is not only "the issue" there are a lot of "issues" happening all the time. The problem is even knowing which are "too serious." That the single faulty sensor which didn't affect anything on the previous planes could mean the difference between the life and death was specifically not reported by Boeing. How it is responsible to certify the plane…

Post by ceejayoz » Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 11:35 AM UTC

foldr wrote: post #61

philpem wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're mechanically linked, the captain would at least feel the first officer countering their inputs -- giving a prompt that they need to communicate their intentions more clearly! I'll defer to a pilot to say whether they are mechanically linked -- it sounds like they are on Boeing aircraft but possibly not on Airbus?

No, the captain would not, because only one pilot has their hands on the controls in any given instance (with the possible exception of rotation at takeoff).