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Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

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Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#101

Post by cellularmitosis »

lsiebert wrote: post #56
Pirolita wrote: post #18

People should be able to do whatever they want with their properties

No, they shouldn't. There are externalities that effect others, and the free market. For example, you don't want people doing things that poison groundwater for the neighbors, right? Anyway, letting property sit idle benefits the landowner but causes issues for neighbors, local government and the free market. It means businesses in those locations get less customers, and local governments less sales tax. If the prope…

"letting property sit idle benefits the landowner"

Can you help me understand this? I've never understood why any property sits idle -- the property would need to increase in value fast enough to counteract property taxes, just for the owner to break even. And that's ignoring the opportunity cost of not filling the property with tenants.

To me, it seems that it would always make more financial sense to try and hit 100% occupancy, even if that means steeply discounting the rent. Wouldn't an empty property be hemorrhaging cash?

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#102

Post by [deleted] »

shhehebehdh wrote: post #73
lsiebert wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they shouldn't. There are externalities that effect others, and the free market. For example, you don't want people doing things that poison groundwater for the neighbors, right? Anyway, letting property sit idle benefits the landowner but causes issues for neighbors, local government and the free market. It means businesses in those locations get less customers, and local governments less sales tax. If the prope…

Normally people talk about externalities of activity, as opposed to externalities of inactivity. I suppose this is just two sides of the same coin. People living in a place does have positive knock on effects. However it feels a little different to me to say, “because you didn’t use your property a certain way, therefore there wasn’t this good secondary effect, therefore you have created a negative externality.” No,…

[deleted]

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#104

Post by minikites »

tschellenbach wrote: post #76

It sounds nice, but the real question is why are people letting these building sit empty. There is probably a good reason for it. Maybe some renter protection laws that went too far?

You're of the opinion that the power balance in the landlord/tenant relationship is biased in favor of the tenant?

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#105

Post by parthdesai »

l4yao wrote: post #88
parthdesai wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Airbnb is not the sole reason, it definitely is one of the factors if not a major factor for the steep rents here in Toronto. Just to give you an example, when i moved in my current condo back in 2017 my rent was $1700/month. 2 years in and my landlord wants to suddenly "move back in" and now the rental price for similar units are around $2200/month. I find it hilarious top brass of Y Combinator talk about thin…

I find this argument a lot whenever Airbnb is mentioned. Do you have a source available? Rent has increased significantly in Toronto recently. How do you know Airbnb is a significant factor?

Here, according this[0] report Toronto has around 6200 entire units as airbnb units. That's at the very least 6200 less rental units in the market. And you know very well how supply and demand works. Anecdotal, but the couple in my neighbouring unit recently bought a condo and moved out. Guess what happened to that unit. It's a full time airbnb unit now. My floor has 12 units, and out of it 3 are full time airbnb units. And this is just 1 floor out of ~45 floors. And mind you, I still haven't started to list all the problems that airbnb tenants bring to the building.

[0] http://fairbnb.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Final_Fairbnb-U...

Yes i know fairbnb is backed by a hotel lobby but that doesn't mean the reports are inaccurate.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#106

Post by phamilton »

tareqak wrote: post #68
president wrote: post #32

San Francisco recently did a similar thing but with commercial storefronts: https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Vacancy-glut-in... .

The city of Vancouver has the Empty Homes Tax. Quote from [0]: Each year, one owner of residential property in Vancouver is required to submit a property status declaration to determine if their property is subject to the tax. Properties deemed empty will be subject to a tax of 1% of the property’s 2018 assessed taxable value. Most homes will not be subject to the tax, as it does not apply to principal residences or…

What's property tax in Vancouver? Is this essentially a doubling of property tax? (1% is a fairly common property tax amount)

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#109

Post by bloomca »

cellularmitosis wrote: post #101
lsiebert wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they shouldn't. There are externalities that effect others, and the free market. For example, you don't want people doing things that poison groundwater for the neighbors, right? Anyway, letting property sit idle benefits the landowner but causes issues for neighbors, local government and the free market. It means businesses in those locations get less customers, and local governments less sales tax. If the prope…

"letting property sit idle benefits the landowner" Can you help me understand this? I've never understood why any property sits idle -- the property would need to increase in value fast enough to counteract property taxes, just for the owner to break even. And that's ignoring the opportunity cost of not filling the property with tenants. To me, it seems that it would always make more financial sense to try and hit 10…

For some people cost of owning – property tax, various services is not a big deal. Also, in some places property rises in prices just by itself (like in San Francisco), you just have to wait.

Sometimes people lose money, but at the end of the day they can sign a good deal on it (let's say couple of years), and it will compensate their losses extensively. But they will have this "ready immediately" sign all this time.

Re: Barcelona Fines Landlords Who Let Buildings Sit Empty

#110

Post by alanlamm »

opportune wrote: post #5
Scoundreller wrote: post #2

Why is it a fine? Why not a tax? Taxing unused spaces sitting idle makes a lot more sense than income (ie: people’s work).

Yeah let's just get rid of income taxes and have an empty-building based economy that makes a lot of sense

While we are at it, lets tax the vacant hours of the unemployed - those evil speculators who are consipiring to restrict the supply of labor. That will encourage them to work and thereby be able to afford all that brand new housing!
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