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US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

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Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#101

Post by toomuchtodo »

dmonagha wrote: post #61
sethhochberg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida is a perfect storm of retirees who should have had their licenses revoked years ago, car-centric exurban non-planning, big trucks as culture, and weather so hot and prone to unexpected storms that few people cycle for anything other than recreation and thus most riders are seen as ridiculous wannabe racers, or just some drunk who lost their drivers' license. Everything is spread out and connected by 6-lane di…

Native and lived in Florida most of my life as well. Everything you just said was true. There was a guy in my hometown, very well known surfer who was killed by a speeding car simply while waiting to cross the street. We have ghost bikes everywhere as well.

Florida is rated the most dangerous state for pedestrians.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#102

Post by magduf »

jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

>Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here.

Sorry if this sounds rude, but this was a surprise to you? I thought everyone in Europe realized how bicycle/pedestrial-hostile US cities are. Did you not come here first to check things out before committing to a cross-Atlantic move?

And seriously, Sweden is one of the top countries on the quality-of-life indices. The US is definitely not. Why would you leave there to come here? That's like me leaving the US and moving to El Salvador, thinking it'll somehow be nicer. (This is a valid comparison: compare the murder rates of Sweden vs. US to US vs. El Salvador.)

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#103

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

lostlogin wrote: post #84
anonymou2 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really can't compare the US and Denmark, you should pick a location and compare before and after segregation. Did it improve safety? There were plenty of bicycle trips in Denmark before cyclists were kicked off the roads for the convenience of motorists.

If it’s convenient for motorists that I get a segregated cycle lane, I’d be very happy to go along with it. Are there cyclists who don’t like cycle lanes and prefer to share with cars?

I don't like them when they aren't adjacent to the main lane. You end up outside the zone where drivers are looking for fast vehicles.

An improved shoulder wide enough to not have storm drains or debris to deal with is ideal. You can enter the roadway proper as needed to take the lane or prepare for turns like every other vehicle. You don't get abuse from ignorant drivers who expect you to stay in your designated space.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#104

Post by anonymou2 »

admiral_biatch wrote: post #39
maxsilver wrote: post #9

The safest infrastructure are ones that split pedestrian / bicyclist / motor traffic as much as possible, for obvious reasons. But that infrastructure has fallen out of favor as of late. "Complete streets" are the new fashion trend, and are significantly more dangerous, by combining these forms of traffic altogether and just sort of hoping it all works out. But, "complete" streets are super cheap, and give the illusi…

In my opinion isolating separate transportation modes is only good if it is complete isolation but that's never feasible in a city. Too expensive and space-inefficient to make every intersection collision-free for cars, bikes and pedestrians. If you separate cars, bikes and pedestrians most of the time but their paths cross at intersections then you have a problem because drivers might not expect a sudden bike lane o…

The current traffic system is the best known way to share the roadways among different types of vehicles, all subject to the same rules. Trying to construct a set of grids for different types of vehicles which interact at certain points is silly, consider what happens when new types of vehicles come into being, like electric scooters, are you going to construct yet another "independent" grid for them?

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#105

Post by magduf »

graywh wrote: post #92
jbarberu wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also lived in Spain for a short time, which isn't exactly known for their great drivers. Central Florida is worse by miles. People stare at their phones while moving (at a light is bad enough, but at least you won't hit anyone), they drive with about a car's length of distance while going 45mph, shifting lanes without using their signals and other crazy shenanigans. I'm just astounded by the complete disregard f…

> they drive with about a car's length of distance while going 45mph, shifting lanes without using their signals and other crazy shenanigans this shit happens everywhere

It's worse in some places than others. Oregon, for instance, is famous for its drivers being too polite.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#106

Post by magduf »

cainxinth wrote: post #32
jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

Florida has pretty bad drivers. They are the 8th worst state according to this list: https://smartasset.com/checking-account/states-with-the-wors... I think it's because it's a state with a lot of transplants (such as yourself) so you have a big mix of driving styles all interacting and they sometimes clash.

That's not why. I live in the DC area, and everyone here is from somewhere else (many from outside the country). People are still much more polite here, and it's much more pedestrian-friendly than in other metro areas, particular Florida.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#107

Post by magduf »

jak92 wrote: post #25
jbarberu wrote: post #20

Having recently moved to Florida from Sweden, I was shocked at how biker/pedestrian hostile it is here. I naively thought I'd be able to live a more active lifestyle because of the nicer weather, but instead I'm driving a car everywhere as I wouldn't feel safe on a bike. It seems to be a pretty vicious cycle of the infrastructure being hostile to biking so nobody does it, nobody is biking so the roads are optimized f…

thank the State DOT.

The DOT is part of the state government, and as such responds to the voters. This problem is caused by the residents of Florida ultimately.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#108

Post by zanny »

xefer wrote: post #12

I noticed they mentioned the speed reduction "Boston, for example, has reduced the city speed limit from 30 miles per hour to 25 mph." Cambridge across the river followed suit soon afterward, but having lived there for decades I can't say I've noticed one iota of difference in the speed cars travel. 25 mph is still ridiculously fast in most of the tight neighborhood streets. Really the speed limit should be reduced e…

I live in a town here the main street has a posted speed limit of 25 that absolutely nobody obeys and the average speed of traffic is always around 40.

If you take a road with a "natural" speed and try to artificially restrict with a speed limit, unless you are prepared to have officers posted on that road at all times ticketing people will ignore the limit entirely and go the "natural" speed of the road.

I see it all the time, all over, especially since I live in PA where the state thinks its a really sensible idea to keep almost every highway at 55 mph no matter what. When you try to heavily constrain car speed well below the natural speed of the road people simply stop trying to obey the limit at all and go whatever speed they want.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#109

Post by mbrameld »

xefer wrote: post #12

I noticed they mentioned the speed reduction "Boston, for example, has reduced the city speed limit from 30 miles per hour to 25 mph." Cambridge across the river followed suit soon afterward, but having lived there for decades I can't say I've noticed one iota of difference in the speed cars travel. 25 mph is still ridiculously fast in most of the tight neighborhood streets. Really the speed limit should be reduced e…

Once thing I've noticed is that for the large majority of US drivers, the speed limit is a very weak signal for how fast they should drive. I think the strongest signals are the driver's perceived safeness and the "flow of traffic", although the 2nd might actually just be a corollary of the 1st. If it "feels safe" to be driving 35mph, then most drivers are going to drive 35mph regardless of the speed limit.

Re: US Cities Are Becoming More Dangerous for Cyclists and Pedestrians

#110

Post by dfxm12 »

gdubs wrote: post #30

I pretty much assume that unless I make eye contact with a driver and get some kind of acknowledgement, I don’t trust that they see me. By far the closest calls I’ve had are stop signs where someone in an SUV stops, doesn’t look right or left (or worse, doesn’t look up from their phone), and then just goes. I also hate “share the road” situations where the right thing to do is take up the whole lane; drivers are almo…

I also hate “share the road” situations where the right thing to do is take up the whole lane;

When driving, I hate when cyclists don't take up the whole lane when they are supposed to (and where I live, they are supposed to unless there's a bike lane). It creates dangerous ambiguous situations when the lane belongs to a biker, but the biker doesn't take it. Pulling over to the side says "go ahead, and pass me" (whether it's a car or a bike). I can't tell you how many times I've seen bikes just mindlessly swerve from the middle of the lane, to outside the lane, and back, paying no attention to the flow of traffic.

I don't get angry at bikers. I get angry at anyone cutting me off or generally using the road erratically.

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