Sweden's leave of absence system helps workers launch their own business • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweden's leave of absence system helps workers launch their own business

#101

Post by cableshaft » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

Mirioron wrote: post #83

cableshaft wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to have this anyway because they never know what might happen to that person. They could say tomorrow they have another job, or as my old boss used to say "got hit by a bus" and died. You'd have no recourse then, so you better have redundancy. Of course, every job I've ever been in has been terrible about redundancy, and when people start leaving, usually it's the people with the most domain knowledge, and…

No, you still need MORE redundancy. If 10 units is enough redundancy to deal with a failure rate of X, if X now increases then you will need more than 10 units for redundancy. The reasons don't matter at all. More chance of failure means more redundancy required.

I was being sarcastic near the end. That seems to be what the higher ups think. I definitely think there needs to be lots of redundancy, as someone who has been the recipient of a bunch of dumped on extra responsibility with little knowledge transfer as people have left.

Re: Sweden's leave of absence system helps workers launch their own business

#102

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 8:15 PM UTC

reb wrote: post #67

Jerry2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, not trapping women in domestic servitude is a good thing Alternative is 'trapping them' (horrible choice of words btw) into corporate servitude. Which of the two is better? Which of the two is better for children?

"Domestic servitude" is a poor way to present homemaking, but calling its historical pull a trap for women isn't far off. Obviously anyone who's struggled in the business world understands joining the game is only liberating along a couple of dimensions (economic, mainly). The choice should be there for men and women to work or rear. Applying that freedom appropriately is the individual's responsibility.

> "Domestic servitude" is a poor way to present homemaking

It is when you are absolutely economically dependent on the outside of the home work, from which you are functionally excluded, of a partner for survival, when even searching for an alternative in the same line is grounds for termination without support, and where the one on whom you are dependent has a legal right to use you sexually without consent (criminalization of marital rape in the US began in the mid-1970s after the mass entry of women into the workforce)? I think “domestic servitude” is an overly positive euphemistic description of the condition women were generally trapped in before their out-of-the-home work became normalized.

Re: Sweden's leave of absence system helps workers launch their own business

#103

Post by reb » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 10:13 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #102

reb wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Domestic servitude" is a poor way to present homemaking, but calling its historical pull a trap for women isn't far off. Obviously anyone who's struggled in the business world understands joining the game is only liberating along a couple of dimensions (economic, mainly). The choice should be there for men and women to work or rear. Applying that freedom appropriately is the individual's responsibility.

> "Domestic servitude" is a poor way to present homemaking It is when you are absolutely economically dependent on the outside of the home work, from which you are functionally excluded, of a partner for survival, when even searching for an alternative in the same line is grounds for termination without support, and where the one on whom you are dependent has a legal right to use you sexually without consent (crimina…

I'm absolutely not making a case that women weren't effectively forced into domestic servitude in the past (and, depending on a a range of factors, in the present). I'm also not making a recommendation that anyone be a full-time homemaker. Given the state of the world, that's a very risky path.

But.

There are women (and men) who would prefer to work in the home and they should be free to do so. It's demeaning to equate a person's effort in homemaking with servitude. There is not something inherently inferior about maintaining a home and it's only a perverse economic system rooted in traditional misogyny that tells us otherwise.

As I said initially, the choice should be there. The social and institutional compulsion obviously should not.

Re: Sweden's leave of absence system helps workers launch their own business

#104

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 10:23 PM UTC

reb wrote: post #103

dragonwriter wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Domestic servitude" is a poor way to present homemaking It is when you are absolutely economically dependent on the outside of the home work, from which you are functionally excluded, of a partner for survival, when even searching for an alternative in the same line is grounds for termination without support, and where the one on whom you are dependent has a legal right to use you sexually without consent (crimina…

I'm absolutely not making a case that women weren't effectively forced into domestic servitude in the past (and, depending on a a range of factors, in the present). I'm also not making a recommendation that anyone be a full-time homemaker. Given the state of the world, that's a very risky path. But. There are women (and men) who would prefer to work in the home and they should be free to do so. It's demeaning to equa…

> It's demeaning to equate a person's effort in homemaking with servitude.

No one did that upthread. Someone compared the condition women were trapped in prior to the normalization of their choice to work in the general market as being trapped in domestic servitude. This is not equivalent to equating freely-chosen homemaking with domestic servitude.

Re: Sweden's leave of absence system helps workers launch their own business

#105

Post by reb » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #104

reb wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm absolutely not making a case that women weren't effectively forced into domestic servitude in the past (and, depending on a a range of factors, in the present). I'm also not making a recommendation that anyone be a full-time homemaker. Given the state of the world, that's a very risky path. But. There are women (and men) who would prefer to work in the home and they should be free to do so. It's demeaning to equa…

> It's demeaning to equate a person's effort in homemaking with servitude. No one did that upthread. Someone compared the condition women were trapped in prior to the normalization of their choice to work in the general market as being trapped in domestic servitude. This is not equivalent to equating freely-chosen homemaking with domestic servitude.

I clearly interpreted CalRobert's comment differently than you did. To me, it read as a comparison between "domestic servitude" and working a job.

Re: Sweden's leave of absence system helps workers launch their own business

#106

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 10:47 PM UTC

reb wrote: post #105

dragonwriter wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's demeaning to equate a person's effort in homemaking with servitude. No one did that upthread. Someone compared the condition women were trapped in prior to the normalization of their choice to work in the general market as being trapped in domestic servitude. This is not equivalent to equating freely-chosen homemaking with domestic servitude.

I clearly interpreted CalRobert's comment differently than you did. To me, it read as a comparison between "domestic servitude" and working a job.

As I see it, he compares being trapped in domestic servitude (the problem before the economic transition since ~1973) with being forced to do work in the general market (the problem after.) He's not comparing two freely chosen activities, he's noting one undesirable compulsion was traded for another (less undesirable, but still undesirable and less recognized) compulsion.

Re: Sweden's leave of absence system helps workers launch their own business

#107

Post by reb » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 10:49 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #106

reb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I clearly interpreted CalRobert's comment differently than you did. To me, it read as a comparison between "domestic servitude" and working a job.

As I see it, he compares being trapped in domestic servitude (the problem before the economic transition since ~1973) with being forced to do work in the general market (the problem after.) He's not comparing two freely chosen activities, he's noting one undesirable compulsion was traded for another (less undesirable, but still undesirable and less recognized) compulsion.

I think your reading makes more sense than mine. Agreed!

Re: Sweden's leave of absence system helps workers launch their own business

#108

Post by CalRobert » Sat, Feb 09, 2019, 5:23 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #106

reb wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I clearly interpreted CalRobert's comment differently than you did. To me, it read as a comparison between "domestic servitude" and working a job.

As I see it, he compares being trapped in domestic servitude (the problem before the economic transition since ~1973) with being forced to do work in the general market (the problem after.) He's not comparing two freely chosen activities, he's noting one undesirable compulsion was traded for another (less undesirable, but still undesirable and less recognized) compulsion.

Exactly. It's the lack of real choice. In 1950-whatever your chances of making it on your own, as a single mom, ESPECIALLY when the entire culture is built on the assumption of stay at home moms, were pretty slim. You didn't just move out, sign up at the local montessori, and go get your "pays roughly similar even if still lower" professional job, and go to the bank and get a mortgage, etc.

Corporate servitude also sucks but that's a result of nimby housing cartels (you're competing with two income households for homes).

Re: Sweden's leave of absence system helps workers launch their own business

#109

Post by lkrubner » Sun, Feb 10, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #87

lkrubner wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Male real wages have been stagnant since 1973, and that's without considering the situation around health care, where costs have risen much faster than general inflation. Counting health care, male real wages have declined noticeably since 1973. Meanwhile, returns to capital have grown dramatically. This is precisely what you would expect in a weak economy, where the workers necessarily lack bargaining power…

Total compensation has almost doubled since 1970, adjusting for inflation. Looking at wages alone is only half the picture.

You are thinking of average compensation. Most reasonable people avoid talking about average compensation, since income has concentrated into the hands of the top workers. The top 1% of Hollywood actors, sports athletes and Wall Street hedge fund traders make several million dollars a year, and therefore they grossly distort the average. Their income hides the reality. If we focus on median income, of all forms, total real compensation for men has declined since 1973.