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Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

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Re: Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

#101

Post by idoco »

wink wrote: post #100
idoco wrote: post #98

My analysis of Bird's unit economics in Tel Aviv: https://twitter.com/ido_co/status/1080883756184023041

> A Bird costs ₪5 to unlock and ₪0.5 per minute of use ($1.34 and $0.13). Wow, I find that pretty expensive. I don't have scooter numbers for comparison and no idea aboul general cost of living in TLV, but in Munich I pay - 1 EUR for 30min of rental bike ( negligible yearly cost of 3 EUR/year) - 2.80 EUR for public transport (1.40 for short trips) So yeah, the scooter is electric, but are people really using them for…

Yes, that is quite expensive. TLV also has Mobike non-electric bikes for about $1 per 30 min.

But take into consideration, that non-electric bikes are not very practical commute option during the Israeli summer (for most people).

Public transport (Bus only) is quite ineffective because of congestion.

Re: Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

#102

Post by lmm »

baroffoos wrote: post #78
foob wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who cares if it's illegal? The pedestrians that are endangered by relatively high speed motorized vehicles riding on sidewalks care. It's totally reasonable for you to not want to ride a scooter on the street, but that doesn't entitle you to break the law and make sidewalks less safe for others.

And what entitles drivers to make the streets very unsafe for everyone?

The democratic law of the land. I don't like it any more than you do - I'm all for increased penalties when drivers kill people, and/or banning cars from city-center streets - but society functions when people follow the democratic process to change laws they disagree with rather than just breaking them.

Re: Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

#103

Post by zdragnar »

finnh wrote: post #49
masonic wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 2 cyclists crash in to each other they will cause minimal property damage Cyclists hitting pedestrians have caused death in SF.

True! Would a license or plate on the bike have changed that?

With license and registration can also come better enforcement of traffic laws, which would help. Anecdotally, I haven't seen anyone on here support car drivers breaking traffic laws (except maybe minor speeding) but on several occasions seen people defending bicyclists breaking traffic laws- trading safe behavior for convenience.

Additionally, I imagine it would be easier to get (and require) bicyclists to carry catastrophic insurance, since carrying a license would at least go some way towards demonstrating safe behavior. By carrying such insurance, both cyclists and surviving family would be protected from at least some of the financial burdens of accidents.

So, yes on two counts: Incentive for safer cycling and easier access to (and possibly mandated) financial protection from accidents.

Re: Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

#104

Post by thecatspaw »

shard972 wrote: post #79
bcOpus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes with progress, you gotta break a few legs. Where “progress” is synonymous with “profit” and the things being broken aren’t yours. Having said that if you’re volunteering, I know a guy with a hammer.

I'm just making an observation of the facts, not positing a moral good or bad to progress.

Its not a true oberservation of facts though. Progress is achievable without any breaking of legs

Re: Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

#105

Post by danpalmer »

idoco wrote: post #101
wink wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A Bird costs ₪5 to unlock and ₪0.5 per minute of use ($1.34 and $0.13). Wow, I find that pretty expensive. I don't have scooter numbers for comparison and no idea aboul general cost of living in TLV, but in Munich I pay - 1 EUR for 30min of rental bike ( negligible yearly cost of 3 EUR/year) - 2.80 EUR for public transport (1.40 for short trips) So yeah, the scooter is electric, but are people really using them for…

Yes, that is quite expensive. TLV also has Mobike non-electric bikes for about $1 per 30 min. But take into consideration, that non-electric bikes are not very practical commute option during the Israeli summer (for most people). Public transport (Bus only) is quite ineffective because of congestion.

I was pretty shocked at how expensive they are in London too. Our public transport isn't cheap compared to mainland Europe, but wow there's no chance I'm paying ~£3-5 for a 10-15 minute ride vs £2.90 for a peak tube journey, £1.50 for 90 mins of bus usage, or £2 for 30 minutes on a bike.

Re: Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

#106

Post by hawaiianbrah »

finnh wrote: post #48
hawaiianbrah wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear that complaint and I think it was certainly more true when first launched, at least in Seattle and DC. Nowadays it seems like people are parking them better on average

Does Seattle have Bird scooters? I haven't seen any scooters here, just bikes.

No, no scooters. I was thinking of the bikes when including Seattle there.

Re: Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

#107

Post by idoco »

forcer wrote: post #99
idoco wrote: post #98

My analysis of Bird's unit economics in Tel Aviv: https://twitter.com/ido_co/status/1080883756184023041

your comment is 100x more informative and interesting than the main article :)

Thanks. I tried to post it to HN but got no traction :)

Re: Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

#108

Post by tapland »

wink wrote: post #100
idoco wrote: post #98

My analysis of Bird's unit economics in Tel Aviv: https://twitter.com/ido_co/status/1080883756184023041

> A Bird costs ₪5 to unlock and ₪0.5 per minute of use ($1.34 and $0.13). Wow, I find that pretty expensive. I don't have scooter numbers for comparison and no idea aboul general cost of living in TLV, but in Munich I pay - 1 EUR for 30min of rental bike ( negligible yearly cost of 3 EUR/year) - 2.80 EUR for public transport (1.40 for short trips) So yeah, the scooter is electric, but are people really using them for…

In Sweden there is Lime competing with the Swedish VOI.

They both charge 10 sek (USD 1.1) to unlock, where VOI charges 0.165 and Lime charges 0.330 per minute.

Bus stops are everywhere and a single ticket costs $2.75 where a 24 hour ticket in the same city zone costs $5.50 (so you always get this if returning), in addition to 25% off any rider in addition to the first on the ticket.

Riding to work (5 min) and back from the grocery store to home (another 5) costs me $5.5 on a Lime, the same as the bus which allows me to ride anywhere for 24 hours, and $3.86 on a VOI.

For any distances longer than that I'd rather take the bus, since it's warm, comfortable and a notably safer ride.

Re: Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

#109

Post by ddalex »

danpalmer wrote: post #105
idoco wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is quite expensive. TLV also has Mobike non-electric bikes for about $1 per 30 min. But take into consideration, that non-electric bikes are not very practical commute option during the Israeli summer (for most people). Public transport (Bus only) is quite ineffective because of congestion.

I was pretty shocked at how expensive they are in London too. Our public transport isn't cheap compared to mainland Europe, but wow there's no chance I'm paying ~£3-5 for a 10-15 minute ride vs £2.90 for a peak tube journey, £1.50 for 90 mins of bus usage, or £2 for 30 minutes on a bike.

I tested li.me e-bikes in London for the 3 times I had the free start ride (invitee bonus).

The bikes are ok, the electric push helps (you still have to pedal, but it levels out the effort, so going uphill is kind of the same effort as going level), and the convenience of just taking them from wherever and leave them where you feel like is really nice.

But holy shit they are expensive. My commute by bike would be aprox 30 mins, that is 5.5 pounds per ride - the tube is only 2.9 pounds, the bus only 1.5 pounds. A 1-year Santander bike subscription is only 90 pounds, and the ride is almost equally nice.

At 5 pounds per ride, buying a commute scooter would break even in 2 months. To make it worthwhile to ride the electric bikes, the price would have to come in at about half to be somewhere between the tube (which moves you fast, but you have to walk a bit to the station) and bus (which moves slower, but the stations are much closer to your home, usually), at 2.5 pounds per 30 min ride (a bit above Santander which charges 2 pounds per 30 mins, but which are not electric).

Re: Bird CEO on scooter startup copycats, unit economics, safety and seasonality

#110

Post by tapland »

nradov wrote: post #20

Can we please get parked scooters off the sidewalk where they present a safety hazard to visually and mobility impaired people?

I signed up to be a charger for the two local services. Mostly used it to report poorly parked scooters (one man in his 40s just rode up and parked the scooter in front of the supermarket doors so that noone could exit, wtf?).

You can carefully lift them to the side, but people's inability to think of others being manifested so clearly is making me lose faith in people.

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