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How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

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101–110 of 138 posts

Re: How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

#101
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For stable, publicly traded companies it is practically the same thing.

No job lasts forever. You will eventually move on. When you do, you will leave un-vested RSUs on the table. That's pay that you will never collect. "Total compensation" is not the same as being paid an actual salary.

Unvested RSUs are not part of "total compensation". Total compensation is obtained by tallying up the cash you get from salary, bonus, and sale (or rather, its value at vest) of all the vested stock you get in each year.

Re: How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

#102
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

220k base + 220k in options a year isn't underpaid. All depends on the options.

Options, in the vast majority of cases, are worthless. We can trade anecdata all day, but each individual's personal stance towards options is shaped by their own experience and the experiences of those who they've worked with. I've never met anyone who made any money off options. With that disclaimer/explainer out of the way, I can say with confidence that I don't factor options into my comp. When an employer gives…

I'm sorry I used the wrong word. I meant RSU's. Actual stock. Not worthless at all.

Re: How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

#103
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you using a McMansion and a boat dock as part of the canonical benchmark lifestyle? What if you want to live in a tiny apartment and direct your money towards travel, cars, hobby gear, or index fund shares so you can retire at 35 instead? All these things cost the same whether you live in the Bay Area or rural Kansas, so you’re better off maximizing absolute income even it means living somewhere with expensiv…

Or even better lets say you want to save 75% of your income for 20 years then do some fun stuff. Suddenly high income/high cost areas look much better.

That is effectively a decision to not have a family.

Re: How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

#104
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For stable, publicly traded companies it is practically the same thing.

No job lasts forever. You will eventually move on. When you do, you will leave un-vested RSUs on the table. That's pay that you will never collect. "Total compensation" is not the same as being paid an actual salary.

That’s why only the annually vesting RSUs are counted in total compensation, not the total grant. If you make 200k base and get 400k/4 years of equity, then your TC is 300k, not 600k.

Re: How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

#105
post #69
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the numbers in the article seem unrealistic to me. Keep in mind the big tech companies (FANG et al) are really a tier above in terms of pay, and also that the numbers given here include both RSUs and a projected performance bonus. If you think this guy/gal is overpaid, well, get a load of this table: https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-facebook-alphabet-most...

Does an L3 or L4 at google in the valley make $300k/year? That seems way above normal based on those salary spreadsheets that leaked.

If you're a new hire, getting a $300k/year offer is rare for L3 and possible for L4 if you negotiate. If you've been around for a few years and performed well, it's possible to cross $300k/year as L3/L4 given how much FAANG stocks have grown.

Re: How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, I'll break the trend: they are underpaid It's all relative to how much things cost. Suppose one of these engineers wants to buy a home. Here, somebody of similar skill could afford any one of: a. new McMansion b. waterfront property with a boat dock and canal access to the ocean c. canal access for an airboat d. a condo literally on the beach e. 11 acres, sheep, goats, can fire an AR-15 in the backyard For each…

Why are you using a McMansion and a boat dock as part of the canonical benchmark lifestyle? What if you want to live in a tiny apartment and direct your money towards travel, cars, hobby gear, or index fund shares so you can retire at 35 instead? All these things cost the same whether you live in the Bay Area or rural Kansas, so you’re better off maximizing absolute income even it means living somewhere with expensiv…

Because a tiny apartment in the Bay Area is going to cost you as much as a McMansion in rural Kansas.

Re: How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, google is different right? They hire the cream of the crop. They don't only hire for experience. They also hire for innate, inborn intelligence. I might get in, but I have to work hard to pass that interview. I'm talking about 200k on average.

Idk where you got the idea that being a Google engineer is innate haha, man the marketing and hype around the role is incredible. The “secret” is Google tries to hire smart hardworking people, not divinely ordained superhumans. My advice would be to study hard for the interview and let them figure out whether or not you pass the bar. At the very least it will be good practice for othe interviews and you might be acce…

So I agreed with you until I talked to Gayle Lackman. There's a thread on quora somewhere where I asked her the question whether or not there exists engineers with a lot of experience who are not smart enough to ever work at google no matter how much they study?

Her answer was yes. She went on to elaborate that google hires and targets CS knowledge along with Innate General Intelligence.

Straight from the horses mouth as she was part of the hiring committee. I would source this thread unfortunately I can't find it anymore.

If you don't believe me you can always direct a question towards Gayle on Quora as she's an active user.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think in the higher echelons of google, they are actually trying to hire for higher IQ. What actually happens is different. The filters actually allow people who study to slip through the cracks despite how much they try. In general though, the overall group that gets hired at google is still generally smarter than a typical programmer working for a much less famous company.

Also as with every job, performance on the interview is highly uncorrelated from performance on the job, unless google has the big data numbers to prove otherwise.

Re: How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you using a McMansion and a boat dock as part of the canonical benchmark lifestyle? What if you want to live in a tiny apartment and direct your money towards travel, cars, hobby gear, or index fund shares so you can retire at 35 instead? All these things cost the same whether you live in the Bay Area or rural Kansas, so you’re better off maximizing absolute income even it means living somewhere with expensiv…

Because a tiny apartment in the Bay Area is going to cost you as much as a McMansion in rural Kansas.

And if it costs you as much but you get paid way more, then you have way more money to spend on other shit. The math is not that complicated.

Re: How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody willing to pay me 200k+? I'm a python expert. I know golang. I can do fullstack work but my preference is for the backend. I'm basically a polyglot, willing to do anything from scala, haskell, python, lisp, you name it. I have good fundamentals, and extensive experience diving into and navigating large/old codebases.

This might be an unpopular opinion here, but I would change how you pitch/market yourself. First, if a candidate talks about programming languages a lot (especially if they're talking about Lisp and Haskell), that can be a sign that they're going to be unhappy working within the confines my team's Java/C++/whatever codebase, and that they're going to complain a lot and try to rewrite things in other languages. That's…

Good points.

Re: How I negotiated a software-engineering job offer in Silicon Valley

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a way to take a poll how many people are actually getting 200k+ with just 2 years of experience? I truly find this unbelievable.

I'm one of those people at least. Coming up on 2 years, and last year and this year both, I'll see >200k in total compensation. Many of my co-workers are in the same boat.

Google is different. If there are places where programmers are actually worth that much, one of them is google.
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