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Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

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Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#101

Post by sidcool »

meitham wrote: post #95

I struggle to see how software developers can willingly do work on a project that goes against all values and morales! I have previously worked with developers in start-ups and was amazed to hear some of their backgrounds. One previously worked for a company that bundles spyware with freeware MSI products. Another worked for an airline agency, where they advertise fake a discount on tickets when the price was in fact…

I struggle to realize why we expect Software engineers to be bellwethers of morality and ethics. They are flesh and blood, and like any other profession, if there's money in something, there will be someone to do it

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#102

Post by scrumper »

gaius wrote: post #77
nelsonic wrote: post #61

Fb is only "shutting down" it's iOS Spyware due to "bad press" not due to a sudden realisation that spying on children who are incapable of understanding the long-term consequences of the privacy invasion is fundamentally wrong/evil. Fb only stop doing things that are obviously morally reprehensible when they get caught or called out in the media. They never proactively doing the right thing. :-(

I would love to be a fly-on-the-wall at some of their meetings when someone says “So we are going to do data collection on minors without parental consent now” and all the developers just say “great I’ll code that up straight away”. Like is there no dissent at all? Is there no one at all who says “guys this is not OK”?

There's some powerful dissonance going on. I once interviewed an engineer. We spent a good 15m of the hour-long interview talking about the moral implications of social networking, the potential for powerful technology to cause harm, and what a developer's imperatives were. He was completely on the "side of right" - must use powers for good, data harvesting is bad, Facebook is an immoral business etc.

He turned down our offer to take a job building a data analytics platform at Facebook. "Oh it was just too exciting tech not to work on."

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#103

Post by smacktoward »

meitham wrote: post #95

I struggle to see how software developers can willingly do work on a project that goes against all values and morales! I have previously worked with developers in start-ups and was amazed to hear some of their backgrounds. One previously worked for a company that bundles spyware with freeware MSI products. Another worked for an airline agency, where they advertise fake a discount on tickets when the price was in fact…

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

-- Upton Sinclair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upton_Sinclair)

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#104

Post by mbesto »

meitham wrote: post #95

I struggle to see how software developers can willingly do work on a project that goes against all values and morales! I have previously worked with developers in start-ups and was amazed to hear some of their backgrounds. One previously worked for a company that bundles spyware with freeware MSI products. Another worked for an airline agency, where they advertise fake a discount on tickets when the price was in fact…

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#105

Post by zimpenfish »

RobLach wrote: post #45

If I tried something like this I’d have my developer account totally revoked and all my apps pulled; but I can’t imagine that happening to Facebook. It makes sense but it’s interesting that there’s a systemic de-risking of the way big players operate while simultaneously being in a position to do the most damage.

They've had their enterprise signing certificate revoked.

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3427520-apple-banning-facebook...

> Apple says. "Any developer using their enterprise certificates to distribute apps to consumers will have their certificates revoked, which is what we did in this case to protect our users and their data.”

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#106

Post by fqw3b58w4n6 »

sidcool wrote: post #101
meitham wrote: post #95

I struggle to see how software developers can willingly do work on a project that goes against all values and morales! I have previously worked with developers in start-ups and was amazed to hear some of their backgrounds. One previously worked for a company that bundles spyware with freeware MSI products. Another worked for an airline agency, where they advertise fake a discount on tickets when the price was in fact…

I struggle to realize why we expect Software engineers to be bellwethers of morality and ethics. They are flesh and blood, and like any other profession, if there's money in something, there will be someone to do it

We should expect everybody to care about the morality and ethics of their actions. That's a pretty low fucking bar IMO. In software, this is one way that manifests.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#107

Post by mcny »

gaius wrote: post #77
nelsonic wrote: post #61

Fb is only "shutting down" it's iOS Spyware due to "bad press" not due to a sudden realisation that spying on children who are incapable of understanding the long-term consequences of the privacy invasion is fundamentally wrong/evil. Fb only stop doing things that are obviously morally reprehensible when they get caught or called out in the media. They never proactively doing the right thing. :-(

I would love to be a fly-on-the-wall at some of their meetings when someone says “So we are going to do data collection on minors without parental consent now” and all the developers just say “great I’ll code that up straight away”. Like is there no dissent at all? Is there no one at all who says “guys this is not OK”?

Amazonians reading this: I'd like to know how often does it cause someone to rethink their proposal when you use the magic words "disagree and commit"? Does it ever happen?

I mean consider this scenario: A, B, C, D, E are in a meeting to discuss a new project that A has planned. D and E like the idea. B is not committed either way. C says they can't see the project being a good thing but uses the magic words "disagree and commit". How often does it cause A to go back and say ok maybe my idea was not good?

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#108

Post by randomacct3847 »

nelsonic wrote: post #61

Fb is only "shutting down" it's iOS Spyware due to "bad press" not due to a sudden realisation that spying on children who are incapable of understanding the long-term consequences of the privacy invasion is fundamentally wrong/evil. Fb only stop doing things that are obviously morally reprehensible when they get caught or called out in the media. They never proactively doing the right thing. :-(

Not really. Apple banned the app -it clearly violated their developer terms of service so they couldn’t continue with it anyway https://www.recode.net/2019/1/30/18203231/apple-says-its-ban...

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#109

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

meitham wrote: post #95

I struggle to see how software developers can willingly do work on a project that goes against all values and morales! I have previously worked with developers in start-ups and was amazed to hear some of their backgrounds. One previously worked for a company that bundles spyware with freeware MSI products. Another worked for an airline agency, where they advertise fake a discount on tickets when the price was in fact…

To any HN readers who work at Facebook: your company is morally decrepit and you are complicit. If you go to LinkedIn and indicate that you're looking, you'll have 20 leads in your inbox by lunch. You don't have to work there.

Re: Facebook will shut down its controversial market research app for iOS

#110

Post by debaserab2 »

meitham wrote: post #95

I struggle to see how software developers can willingly do work on a project that goes against all values and morales! I have previously worked with developers in start-ups and was amazed to hear some of their backgrounds. One previously worked for a company that bundles spyware with freeware MSI products. Another worked for an airline agency, where they advertise fake a discount on tickets when the price was in fact…

> Needless to say, their actions outside the work environment matched their actions inside.

It's a given assumption that anyone who once worked for a shady company is also shady?

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