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I'm going to work full-time on free software

drewdevault.com

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Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#101

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

danans wrote: post #92
skrowl wrote: post #18

Here's my best argument for why UBI can't work in the USA. Let me know where i went wrong: My TV told me a "living wage" is at least $15 (but probably higher in liberal controlled areas like NYC / most CA cities / etc due to high cost of living & taxation), but we'll start with $15 to make it easy. $15/hr at 40hr/week = $31,200 per year. $31,200 * 328,300,000 population of USA = $10,242,960,000,000 Written out (for e…

> $31,200 * 328,300,000 population of USA = $10,242,960,000,000 To start with, 24% of the population are minors, so that knocks a few trillion off that figure. Secondly, a UBI isn't a living wage, so $15 in today to dollars is not a starting figure, because that is a wage in exchange for work. UBI is meant to cover the very basics, like a food and varying amounts of housing (depending on the local housing market). Fo…

> To start with, 24% of the population are minors, so that knocks a few trillion off that figure.

How does that work? Is the UBI of both parents (or, worse, the single parent) supposed to cover the costs of raising their children for those primarily dependent on UBI?

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#102

Post by seba_dos1 »

Glad to see that! Recently I've been lucky enough to be contracted as a freelancer on GPL projects, or at least projects with LGPL core, with sending improvements to upstream projects being part of the job. It's so fulfilling and liberating that I wish it will stay this way forever :)

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#103

Post by karandodia »

dplgk wrote: post #81
peatmoss wrote: post #12

My best argument for UBI is, “I’d love to be able to work on F/OSS full time.” Kudos for making it a reality. It may be scratching a personal itch, but the positive externalities to society are real.

Your best argument for the country to get UBI is so people can work on OSS full time?

If I understood correctly that's their personal best argument for UBI. We each have our own intrinsic motivations!

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#104

Post by zozbot123 »

peatmoss wrote: post #12

My best argument for UBI is, “I’d love to be able to work on F/OSS full time.” Kudos for making it a reality. It may be scratching a personal itch, but the positive externalities to society are real.

My best argument for UBI is I’d love to be able to work on F/OSS full time, and that seems impossible outside of a fully free, stable, smoothly-functioning and affluent society. And given current economic trends, UBI is very likely a required part of any such society, at least in any reasonably large polity-- think the average U.S. state, or even the U.S. as a whole. So, it seems we agree after all!

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#105

Post by CuriousCosmic »

delinka wrote: post #24
skrowl wrote: post #18

Here's my best argument for why UBI can't work in the USA. Let me know where i went wrong: My TV told me a "living wage" is at least $15 (but probably higher in liberal controlled areas like NYC / most CA cities / etc due to high cost of living & taxation), but we'll start with $15 to make it easy. $15/hr at 40hr/week = $31,200 per year. $31,200 * 328,300,000 population of USA = $10,242,960,000,000 Written out (for e…

I'd assume that we would eventually make that distribution as efficient as possible with automation. I'd further assume that any money you make gets channeled through this system so that you have to earn past $30K to see any more money in your account. nit: ten trillion two hundred forty two billion nine hundred sixty million and no thousands ;-) How about "over $10.2 trillion"?

The issue with your suggestion is that it dis-incentivises work which is one of the problems UBI tries to solve about welfare systems. Currently the issue is "why would I work more than X amount if that means that I make less than if I worked less than that (welfare + work)?" but with your system it becomes "If I am relatively unskilled, why would I try to work at all if that means that I will receive almost no compensation beyond what the government already gives me?".

UBI is supposed to support people so that they can do the work that they believe is most valuable and to prevent people from being dis-incentivised from pursuing work. It has other goals as well such as eliminating other welfare services, removing minimum wage, and incentivising moving away from cities but those first two are the primary reasons.

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#106

Post by allannienhuis »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #85
_khhm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AOC literally refers to herself as a socialist https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/01/democratic-sociali...

You misunderstood, again. Yes she does, because she's working within the American context. What I am saying is that she would not be refereed to as"socialist" in much of the rest of the developed world. She is only a "socialist" because of how right-wing the USA political context is. An easy way you can tell, even as an American, is that she's not advocating for abolishing capitalism and seizing the means of producti…

I'm no student of politics, so I could well be way off base, but isn't 'abolishing capitalism and seizing the means of production' central pillars of communism, not socialism?

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#107

Post by seba_dos1 »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #101
danans wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $31,200 * 328,300,000 population of USA = $10,242,960,000,000 To start with, 24% of the population are minors, so that knocks a few trillion off that figure. Secondly, a UBI isn't a living wage, so $15 in today to dollars is not a starting figure, because that is a wage in exchange for work. UBI is meant to cover the very basics, like a food and varying amounts of housing (depending on the local housing market). Fo…

> To start with, 24% of the population are minors, so that knocks a few trillion off that figure. How does that work? Is the UBI of both parents (or, worse, the single parent) supposed to cover the costs of raising their children for those primarily dependent on UBI?

Why should it? Currently UBI is $0. Is this supposed to cover these costs too?

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#108

Post by xur17 »

dsr_ wrote: post #90
skrowl wrote: post #18

Here's my best argument for why UBI can't work in the USA. Let me know where i went wrong: My TV told me a "living wage" is at least $15 (but probably higher in liberal controlled areas like NYC / most CA cities / etc due to high cost of living & taxation), but we'll start with $15 to make it easy. $15/hr at 40hr/week = $31,200 per year. $31,200 * 328,300,000 population of USA = $10,242,960,000,000 Written out (for e…

Your biases are showing, and that's affecting the quality of your argument. "liberal controlled areas" is an indicator. People vote for policies that make sense to them. Most people like living in cities, and they like living in places where government provides services that aren't well-distributed by market mechanisms. Let's go with your $10T number. Then, let's apply a standard progressive income tax, of the kind t…

> And one more simple change: make income tax calculated by the IRS and you file changes against their preparation, rather than you sitting down and trying to figure everything out each April. Cuts down on frustration and tax avoidance.

Yes please. It drives me crazy that I have to waste time copying numbers between forms for my taxes.

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#109

Post by coldtea »

blfr wrote: post #83
peatmoss wrote: post #12

My best argument for UBI is, “I’d love to be able to work on F/OSS full time.” Kudos for making it a reality. It may be scratching a personal itch, but the positive externalities to society are real.

Yeah, it's the modern version of a minor landed gentleman who can pursue his interests. It's how we got science. Sadly, the best argument against UBI is that vast, vast majority of people will not be working full time on F/OSS or quite possible anything else.

>Sadly, the best argument against UBI is that vast, vast majority of people will not be working full time on F/OSS or quite possible anything else.

That's sad only if we have the scarcity induced morality of associating "getting to have a living" with "earning it by working".

Re: I'm going to work full-time on free software

#110

Post by coldtea »

skrowl wrote: post #18

Here's my best argument for why UBI can't work in the USA. Let me know where i went wrong: My TV told me a "living wage" is at least $15 (but probably higher in liberal controlled areas like NYC / most CA cities / etc due to high cost of living & taxation), but we'll start with $15 to make it easy. $15/hr at 40hr/week = $31,200 per year. $31,200 * 328,300,000 population of USA = $10,242,960,000,000 Written out (for e…

UBI shouldn't be connected with "making a living in NYC" or whether. It should be enough to cover basic needs, even if it means having to move to a cheaper state.

In that light, something like $10-$12,000 is more like it -- should cover rent, basic food, electricity, and so on. It's to not have homeless, destitute, left behind people, not to cover nice living expenses.

For a family, $10 will be of course $20, and so on. A few friends could pool and stay in the same house with $1000 rent and get $40K between them, etc.

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