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Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

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101–110 of 294 posts

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#101
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, Antonin "Emails aren't Papers" Scalia.

What's the "emails aren't papers" thing in reference to?

Scalia had a pretty narrow interpretation of the 4th, and believed that ‘conversations’ in general were not ‘persons, houses, papers [or] effects’, meaning wiretaps were not within the scope of the amendment.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#102

I won't believe this ruling is safe until it goes thru higher levels. The Executive Branch has over the past 2 decades has shown a large propensity for attempts to disregard the 4th and 5th amendments, and I see no change in this posture or the attempts to subvert them with the current political climate.

Bio identification is for usernames... not passwords. NEVER use a fingerprint or an iris scan for a password. That's insane! Just don't do it.

What about a second factor for TFA?

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up studies on the reliability of witness testimony if you want to get really scared on how courts run.

Even forensic science can be used questionably. Really, once you're in the court room it's entirely rhetoric and fudge-factor.

"Forensic science" has a long history of being flagrant psuedo-science, very often being a morally bankrupt abuse of statistics.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue arises when the knowledge of the password itself is incriminating. The 5th amendment prohibits forced self incrimination. Forcing a suspect to divulge information that is directly incriminating will not stand constitutional review, regardless of the nature of the information. You have the right to remain silent.

What if they have a warrant? At that point I would argue that you are not self-incriminating. In my mind, it's like if the police had a warrant to search your apartment and you didn't let them in.

More like:

Police: "We have a warrant for your apartment, let us in"

Suspect: "Sorry, I lost the key when I went hiking in the Rocky Mountains, there's no way in. Oh, and be aware that if you try to force your way in more than 5 times, the apartment will catch fire and destroy everything inside"

What would happen in this case? Can the suspect be held in contempt?

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#105
post #59
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And along those lines, I've heard that DNA tests aren't reliable either.

The problem with the DNA tests we use today, assuming even perfect cases with zero contamination or mistakes (whole other argument there), is that (in my non-expert understanding): * Taking the samples and using several solutions to snip them at given patterns. * Taking another solution and promoting replication of the fragments. * Using some dye and a weight sorting channel to bin the fragments by weight. This resul…

You’ve described electrophoresis DNA fingerprinting correctly, then jumped to the unjustified conclusion that it’s a VERY crude hash.

Not so, it’s a fairly excellent hash, one with few collisions. Better than a fingerprint. If it looks like your DNA, it most likely is.

Source: was an electrophoresis tech (not forensic) in a previous life.

And yes, the usual genetics sites do SNP tests, which are cheaper than full sequencing but mean that they only find what they’re already looking for.

The price of full sequencing is dropping rapidly, I look forward to it being a standard part of medical practice, it will save a lot of lives and improve quality of care.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#106

This nice and all in theory but looking through the lens of reality where police are legally allowed to lie to get a confession - claiming they have evidence that they don’t have to coerce a confession and seeing that “rubber hose decryption” is real, it really doesn’t mean much in practice. Edit: Since people don’t seem to believe that police are actually legally allowed to lie during an interrogation: https://www.n…

Police are absolutely allowed to lie during an interrogation. I’ve seen it done multiple times. The most disturbing interrogation I’ve ever seen was actually the one where a teenager murdered his own father while under the influence of magic mushrooms. He was taken into the interrogation room shortly after the murder but enough time had elapsed that he was sober and just starting to understand the gravity of what he…

Did you expect the guy to get off free for murder?

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#107

I won't believe this ruling is safe until it goes thru higher levels. The Executive Branch has over the past 2 decades has shown a large propensity for attempts to disregard the 4th and 5th amendments, and I see no change in this posture or the attempts to subvert them with the current political climate.

Bio identification is for usernames... not passwords. NEVER use a fingerprint or an iris scan for a password. That's insane! Just don't do it.

Most people don't have attackers going after them who are harvesting fingerprints to get into their devices.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#108
I doubt this will hold up.

You can be compelled by a court to have your blood withdrawn if a warrant is issued while you're under suspicion of DUI. Why would it not be similarly allowable to have your finger placed on the unlock button?

Testimonial privilege (against being forced to testify) is about not being made to say / speak statements against your own prosecution. Speech. Testimony.

Having evidence taken is not forcing you to speak, testify, or make a statement, at least in the current interpretation of evidence.

This ruling is not for sure at all.

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#109
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bio identification is for usernames... not passwords. NEVER use a fingerprint or an iris scan for a password. That's insane! Just don't do it.

What about a second factor for TFA?

I have a simple test for if I should use biometrics for something:

Replace every instance of "New Biometric Tech" with "Social Security Number".

Re: Feds Can't Force You to Unlock Your iPhone with Finger or Face, Judge Rules

#110

I won't believe this ruling is safe until it goes thru higher levels. The Executive Branch has over the past 2 decades has shown a large propensity for attempts to disregard the 4th and 5th amendments, and I see no change in this posture or the attempts to subvert them with the current political climate.

Bio identification is for usernames... not passwords. NEVER use a fingerprint or an iris scan for a password. That's insane! Just don't do it.

What about for devices that don't have usernames?
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