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Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

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Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#101
post #75

Le sigh. I think Google has lost sight of something very simple in this fracas: With Google Contacts, the user directly manages his contacts' email addresses . With Facebook, the user delegates management of email address to his contacts . These are not the same thing. The Google contacts team seems to think that Facebook is an address book just like them . They are not. And to me, that failure to understand the diff…

Except that you can export the email addresses if you use Hotmail or Yahoo! Contacts, which have special agreements with Facebook.

I did this, and even though it's super crappy because it doesn't map to my existing address book entries very well, at least I finally have my FB friends' email addresses.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As luck would have it, I picked today to set up a Facebook profile for me girlfriend." I can't be the only one who thinks this is more than a bit weird.

Presumably it was with her permission?

I think he was more commenting on the computer illiteracy.

Perhaps this is an older gentleman? The only people I can imagine being unable to set-up a Facebook account comfortably are 50+. And even then, I know for a fact a lot of them can.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#103
post #90
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the difference is very important. I've almost never manually added a contact into Google and my contacts list has been built up by years of correspondence. In a sense, the people I've been emailing determine which address shows up in my contacts list. In any case, even if there is a big difference, you haven't really said why the debate hinges on a failure to understand it.

No, you don't understand the distinction portman is making. It's not between "type in email myself" vs "harvest from email", i.e. a question of data entry. It's a question of management . With Google Contacts, I'm the one that updates an email address if someone else's address changes. With Facebook, all I manage is the list of contacts , while the contact manages their own email address. Which means that when someon…

Does sending you a mail message gives you an implicit moral permission to upload my mail address to a third party web-site?

Does adding you as a friend on a social network site gives you an implicit moral permission to upload my "visible to friends" data to a third party web-site?

I guess what you are saying is that the answer to these two questions need not be the same.

[ The fact that Facebook will let you export my data to Yahoo (which will let you re-export it to anyone, just like GMail) kind of indicates that it is not the fine distinction above that governs Facebook's actions. ]

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few grand, give or take. Why does that change anything? Edit: Google charges for things like AdWords, of which I am a heavy user. So yes, people do in fact pay them money for things.

Cut the snark. We all know you haven't paid a few grand for gmail this year.

This has way too many upvotes. There are _lots_ of people who pay Google money for isolated, corporate installations of Gmail and the rest of the Google Apps suite.

And whether Gmail is paid for as an explicit line-item or not isn't what matters here; most of the money that funds Gmail comes from AdWords and Google's behavior with Gmail impresses upon AdWords customers. It's all done with Google's name and image and it all reflects back on Google collectively. It's perfectly fine to feel sad when a vendor does something you don't like with a "bonus product", even if you weren't billed specifically for your usage of that product.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#105

As luck would have it, I picked today to set up a Facebook profile for me girlfriend. I'm now really angry with Google. It used to be a 30 second task to sift through your address book and check off people to send friend requests to. Now, thanks to Google behaving like children, I need to figure out how to export her contacts as a text file so that I can upload it to Facebook. Google, please stop. You are pissing off…

As a prospective customer why don't you get mad at Facebook?

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#106
Interesting how the tide seems to turn. My Conspiracy theory:

I think Facebook might have gone to far with Facebook Deals. Now Groupon, its friends and other bystanders start to react less kindly to Facebook's business model: Copying ideas from other websites with nothing in return. Oh, well.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#107

As luck would have it, I picked today to set up a Facebook profile for me girlfriend. I'm now really angry with Google. It used to be a 30 second task to sift through your address book and check off people to send friend requests to. Now, thanks to Google behaving like children, I need to figure out how to export her contacts as a text file so that I can upload it to Facebook. Google, please stop. You are pissing off…

Customers? How much money have you paid Google for services this year?

This argument is such an annoying fallacy. People who use Google's services are Google's "customers" in the same way people who watch television are the network's "customers". You may not be the direct source of income, but if they lose all the "non-customers" that are using their services, they're going to lose all of their advertisers, which is their direct source of income. The audience is a crucial component in a business model that depends on advertisement.

Even if it wasn't, Google opens itself to criticism and review whether their service is free or not. We definitely shouldn't temper our ideas or give Google a pass because "it's free"; that might excuse some advanced features, but it definitely doesn't extend into basics like contact exporting. That's a fundamental, and something that many have blasted Facebook, also ostensibly a "free" service, for not supporting well.

Google is making money off of Gmail. If they weren't making money off of Gmail, they would have discontinued the service a long time ago. Even if the nominal costs exceed the direct profits gained from Google Apps licenses and the display of AdWords, etc., which I tend to doubt, the indirect benefits are obviously valuable.

Should we all feel a great gratitude to the for-profit corporation Google for pursuing their best interest? Certainly we all appreciate the free services, but Google is no charity and expecting an altruistic, anything-goes attitude to their products is silly. They are a serious company making serious money and competing in a serious space, there's no need to make up excuses for them, especially naive ones like, "Well it's free anyway so you shouldn't expect anything out of it".

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cut the snark. We all know you haven't paid a few grand for gmail this year.

This has way too many upvotes. There are _lots_ of people who pay Google money for isolated, corporate installations of Gmail and the rest of the Google Apps suite. And whether Gmail is paid for as an explicit line-item or not isn't what matters here; most of the money that funds Gmail comes from AdWords and Google's behavior with Gmail impresses upon AdWords customers. It's all done with Google's name and image and…

This is a fair point. But surely you'll agree that the free and $10-per-month users vastly outnumber the corporate and Google Apps users. And I'd bet that the OP isn't one of those corporate customers (he's now edited his post to clarify).

In any case, we aren't really arguing about anything relevant to the discussion at hand.

I happen to think that the original comment was rather trollish given that he can still export his girlfriend's contact information from gmail. He just needs to click two more times now. I think the upvotes my comment got are reflective of a similar feeling about the whole thread from other HNers.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is Google taking that stance? Last I checked, Google was taking the exactly opposite stance. http://www.dataliberation.org/

Obviously I must have phrased my position wrong, based on the reaction. Yes, they are taking that stance, since they are imposing conditions on exporting data from gmail. If I owned and could do anything I wanted with my data on gmail, then Google could not impose restrictions. They just did (in their API restrictions). That's what I'm very concerned about.

Well, I want an API where I can get all my Gmail messages with their metadata, all formatted as Clojure maps. Is Google imposing restrictions on me because nobody has bothered implementing that? Not really. It's analogous.

As long as Google provides ways to get all your data that are free, public, easy to parse, and well-documented, they aren't imposing restrictions. If they add extra APIs or additional formats on top of that, it's gravy. Remember, the point of having these exports is to be able to get your data out and switch from service to service, so that the market stays competitive. It's not so that you have a fully-automated Google API for your profile that other programs can interact with.

Re: Gmail: Trap my contacts now (warning when exporting contacts to Facebook)

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And juste because I delegated management of contacts to Facebook, are they excused for not letting me get my data out whenever I want to switch contact management services -- for example -- to diaspora?

Facebook allows you to do this now. Go to Account->Account Settings->Download your Information.

In Facebook, email adresses are not considered your information and thus are not exportable AFAIK.
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