The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction • Hacker News Board

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#101

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 7:31 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #64

ceejayoz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same experience with the first book, and never proceeded further. I kinda wonder if it's a translation/cultural issue - the characters' decision making processes and the ways things were described felt very foreign to me.

> characters' decision making processes and the ways things were described felt very foreign to me. the book isn't a dramatic book - it doesn't follow a hero's journey or the typical greek style storytelling trope. It's more like a description of what happened. But i like that - the sci-fi elements described a pretty fantastical, concepts are fresh and original (however you can argue that it has been done before?!).…

> I feel that the book is bifurcated amongst readers who read for literary quality vs conceptual quality.

Yup. I'm strongly in the latter camp (as I'm fond of saying, if I wanted to read character development, I'd pick up literally any other genre - everything nowadays is about people and their emotional dramas; I like my sci-fi when it's about ideas). The whole Trilogy is pretty dense in concepts, including some insanely beautiful ideas, while also not venturing too far outside established science. I liked in particular how thinking of various... factions (to not spoiler too much) is built around lack of FTL in the books' universe.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#102

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 7:36 AM UTC

dmix wrote: post #77

sfifs wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly cultural but the Dark Forest (second book) is definitely worth the read whatever your experience with the first book. It is quite remarkable the breadth of the ideas that were explored.

> It is quite remarkable the breadth of the ideas that were explored. For example?

A solid, game-theoretic explanation for the Fermi paradox based on assumptions of no FTL and technological growth being sudden and rapid, both seemingly applicable to our universe.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#103

Post by blackrock » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 7:56 AM UTC

Jerry2 wrote: post #34

Cixin Liu's 'Remembrance of Earth’s Past' trilogy are the greatest sci-fi books I've ever read. I still remember when I picked the first volume and than patiently waited for a very long time for translations of the next books to arrive. The wait was well worth it. He manages to put his characters into seemingly insurmountable situations and it feels like he won't be able to write his way out of them but somehow he ma…

I think it depends on what you want out of it.

In western sci-fi, the story exists to make the reader feel good about themselves. At least, the successful ones are like this. It makes for good movies, and good story telling.

Think about that for a moment. All the western sci-fi that we've been used to: Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, etc.. All these stories are not really science fiction, but rather, science fantasy.

It goes through the normal story telling, of establishing a good guy and a bad guy. And it tries to pull you in, to empathize with the challenges of the good guy, so that you can experience his trials and tribulations. And then, at the end, the good guy always wins. He always succeeds, in some way or other. And you're left with feeling a sense of joy.

But, Cixin Lui's stories, threw all that aside. He presented you with the cold hard reality, of survival in the jungle. That there are not really any good or bad sides. Just different perspectives. And everyone is just trying to survive.

And the jungle is the galaxy. Western sci-fi is all about being human-centric, as if we are the only species in the universe that matters. Whereas Cixin, presented us with a reality, where humanity is only one of billions of intelligent species. Those that had survived the jungle, or those that hide from the rest, or those that evolved into another form, or those that end up hunting, to maintain their probability of survival.

So, if you want to continue to feel good about yourself, then stick with what you know. Keep reading western sci-fi. If you want to expand your mind, then try out Cixin's novel.

Admittedly, I think something was lost in translation. The translated text was overly wordy. But the concepts behind it, was still incredible.

I especially loved the story about the human computer system, the Qin 1.0 Operating System. That was quite creative.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#104

Post by Scaevolus » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 7:57 AM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #92

I have only read "Three-Body Problem", and I found it to be atrocious writing on pretty much all levels. Language-wise, it was more cliched and wooden than many fanfics I've read. Character development is non-existent, and most of the characters are very shallow and only exist to advance the plot. The plot itself, aside from the basic idea of a three-body system with life, was also very boring - the only part of it t…

"Dark Forest" is a fascinating idea that would make for an interesting short story, but I agree with you that the characters and plot are extremely lacking.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#105

Post by infinii » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 8:00 AM UTC

tanilama wrote: post #84

Chinese book market, or fiction market has now almost fully embraced digital self-publishing. Magazine are now almost dead, books are just physical copies of their online version. Sad but true, the one most important Chinese SF magazine, the SF World, where all the mentioned authors started their career, has been hanging on the edge and gradually becoming irrelevant for some time now. The new generation of readers ha…

Do you value the medium or the content? I can't see why you think 'digital self-publishing' is a bad thing.

If anything, digital publishing where you can circumvent the publishers should allow for more content to reach market (not saying it's all good...see geocities webpages as an example of this) but I'm not sure why you think this would be bad for the Chinese SciFi scene.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#106

Post by barry-cotter » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 8:02 AM UTC

yorwba wrote: post #20

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liu Cixin already covers this in his well-known trilogy. Also, Folding Beijing is an award winning short story encompassing all three things plus class strife, written by a Chinese author.

Folding Beijing was linked in TFA, but in case someone overlooked it or went straight to the comments, here's the English translation: http://uncannymagazine.com/article/folding-beijing-2/

I hate that story so much. It’s practically the platonic ideal of engineer written fiction without the tiniest patina of knowledge of social science. A story about monstrous people and three worlds occupying one space over the course of a day in fantasy, good. As something vaguely purporting to be a plausible depiction of a possible reality it is absolute garbage. It makes no sense on a political, sociological or economic level. The machinery described is insanely complex and would be very, very expensive and all to get a tiny bit more use out of space when you could do as well by building skyscrapers, or going underground, or expanding the city. Beijing is big but there’s plenty of flat land to expand around it.

If you can turn off all knowledge of how things work and just look at the human story of love, loss and sacrifice the translation and writing is excellent.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#107

Post by yoz-y » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 8:03 AM UTC

Hasknewbie wrote: post #43

Jerry2 wrote: post #34

Cixin Liu's 'Remembrance of Earth’s Past' trilogy are the greatest sci-fi books I've ever read. I still remember when I picked the first volume and than patiently waited for a very long time for translations of the next books to arrive. The wait was well worth it. He manages to put his characters into seemingly insurmountable situations and it feels like he won't be able to write his way out of them but somehow he ma…

I read the first book in that trilogy, and it struck me how much it was a product of the Hu Jintao era. Under the presidency of Xi Jinping this book would have never been allowed. Way too snarky about the Cultural Revolution (I mean, in it there's a university professor that gets literally lynched by 'revolutionary' students because he refuses to parrot some party line. And that's just chapter one), and the Xi admini…

One interesting thing: The English translation starts with the cultural revolution bit, but the original book has it in the middle. The author said that he actually intended to start with this part to put things in a context but ultimately moved it around in order to not stir things up.

There is also a movie that has finished filming but is in post production hell. Allegedly because of money issues but who knows.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#108

Post by infinii » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 8:04 AM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #60

I really enjoyed Liu Cixin‘s Three Body Problem trilogy when I read it last year. Really creative and interesting. I also just finished his prequel to the trilogy Ball Lightening.

Would you recommend reading Ball Lightning before the TBP Trilogy if I've never read any of this...because it's a prequel?

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#109

Post by yoz-y » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 8:08 AM UTC

Jerry2 wrote: post #34

Cixin Liu's 'Remembrance of Earth’s Past' trilogy are the greatest sci-fi books I've ever read. I still remember when I picked the first volume and than patiently waited for a very long time for translations of the next books to arrive. The wait was well worth it. He manages to put his characters into seemingly insurmountable situations and it feels like he won't be able to write his way out of them but somehow he ma…

According to comments in this thread this book seems to be either at the top or the bottom of the pile. To me this is a good indicator of a good book. Like in music, if you want to be interesting you can't cater to everyone, adding stuff that some people hate will make other people love it.

Personally I really liked the series, although I think that the story could have been cut a little shorter at the end and it could have done without perpetrating the stereotype of young women marrying way older men.

Re: The Rise and Rise of Chinese Science Fiction

#110

Post by tanilama » Mon, Jan 14, 2019, 8:16 AM UTC

Three body problem does suffer the problem of weak characterization. Liu's account of his characters are often robotic and functional, in a way that is pretty anti-climatic, since you hardly feel for those characters and their fate. They are disposable vehicles with string attached, who don't control their own fate or make their own decisions but simply carry out appointed missions from the author himself.

Granted, his vision for the story is simply brilliant, which covers up a lot of weak points in his literary skills, but weakness is weakness nevertheless. In a way, Three Body Problem series aren't good novels, since it lacks humartian elements in them, but great sketchbooks of some of the craziest, but at the same time, most beautiful SF ideas in decades.