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The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

theguardian.com

101–110 of 195 posts

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#101
post #4

Overall I agree with the article, and would gladly trade my high paying job for one that I actually enjoy, as long as I could be sure that I can make ends meet. The one disagreement I have is the assertion that we should be happy making "just enough" money that we need. "just enough" can change due to circumstances outside our control, so earning more than enough gives you some cushion for when things don't go as pla…

I totally agree, and while a good % of HN readers probably are making a lot, the vast majority of people (at least in the US) are living month to month.

I live month to month, as should everybody. Financially secure people just have their savings plans in order, so what is left over after all their savings is what they live on. Financially insecure people don't keep money going into savings.

You can't take it with you, and you don't know how long you have to live. So there is no point in saving money for the sake of saving money. There are few religions that disagree, if you belong to such a religion I guess saving for the next life makes sense.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#102
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hand-licking story that made the front page today illustrates this point perfectly. [...] > It is only when she applied an irrational approach to the problem, surrendering the need to control the situation, that she could finally understand what was going on. I feel like you have a somewhat idiosyncratic definition of "irrational" that you're applying here. What I took from the hand-licking story was that her i…

I think it's common for people, especially the overly-rational, to conflate correctness with rationality. Yes, with hindsight it can be seen that the actions she initially took were incorrect. But they seemed perfectly rational approaches at the time. If you see your child doing something anti-social, then it's logical to try to correct it because if you don't, it will cause problems for them down the road. In fact,…

> Yes, with hindsight it can be seen that the actions she initially took were incorrect. But they seemed perfectly rational approaches at the time.

There was nothing incorrect or irrational about the actions the mother initially took. Her approach was reasonable given the limited information available to her. A slightly more rational approach would perhaps have placed greater emphasis on the value of empathy and her relationship with her child, which was being undermined by some of the measures she took, and given correspondingly less weight to the social pressure she was feeling from others—but in the end she made the rational decision in line with her own principles and priorities and stopped trying to force the issue. Later, when her son was both able and willing to discuss the matter, she was able to analyse the root cause and suggest several rational alternative courses of action which were readily adopted, thus putting an end to the problem for good.

It's unclear from the write-up whether any maternal instincts were involved, but the peer pressure which pushed her to force the issue was clearly irrational and played on her instinctive desire for acceptance. Instincts and emotions are a good thing and shouldn't be ignored, but it's a mistake to follow them blindly—they can lead you into trouble just as easily as they can get you out of it. It's best to look at them as valuable inputs into the rational process, to be evaluated alongside other data before drawing any conclusions.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#103

Our combined income is about $600k USD, but funny enough we don't consider ourselves "rich". We consider ourselves "upper middle class" at least for the Bay Area, because we both work very hard, probably 10+ hours a day. Our mortgage on our house is less than 1 year's income so it's relatively low compared to others in the Bay Area. If one of us lost our jobs, we could still comfortably afford our mortgage but we wou…

If your mortgage is $600k, you should work towards paying that off more quickly, depending on the interest rate, so that you can be free from that burden. Once your house is paid for, then your daily work can decrease if you want, or have extra savings available for earlier retirement or maybe doing more fun things. I won't be "happy" until I'm debt free with $10mil in savings/investments, but I am definitely happy regardless because I genuinely look forward to every day of working towards that goal.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#104

Money gave me stability. Stability allowed me to have time for introspection. Introspection allowed me to target issues in my life. Fixing those issues is lowering my discomfort in life. Money won't fix anything for you but it will provide you an environment where you can.

You can also use your money to sit at the pub drinking all day, which will likely affect your life negatively.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point if you're not happy? Fulfilling your meaning and being utterly miserable seems like a goal I want to avoid. Unless meaning will lead to happiness, at which point happiness is again the goal.

Life is suffering. Life is not happiness. Best you figure that out now. We have birthday parties and celebrations all the time. Why? Because life is miserable and we should take every opportunity to celebrate when we can.

Damn, hope you can find some happiness bud. I assure you not everyone thinks 'life is miserable'.

I think life is awesome.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's common for people, especially the overly-rational, to conflate correctness with rationality. Yes, with hindsight it can be seen that the actions she initially took were incorrect. But they seemed perfectly rational approaches at the time. If you see your child doing something anti-social, then it's logical to try to correct it because if you don't, it will cause problems for them down the road. In fact,…

> Yes, with hindsight it can be seen that the actions she initially took were incorrect. But they seemed perfectly rational approaches at the time. There was nothing incorrect or irrational about the actions the mother initially took. Her approach was reasonable given the limited information available to her. A slightly more rational approach would perhaps have placed greater emphasis on the value of empathy and her…

Things are irrational until we understand the dynamics behind them. Then they become rational. When she decided not to press the issue, that wasn't a rational decision made on logic, it was an emotional one where she prioritized one kind of truth, that it was her hurting her child, over another kind of truth, that it was the hand licking that was hurting her child.

Only in retrospect did the actuality of the situation make itself known. There was no logical way to weigh one alternative against another. Sure, one later manifested, but it didn't exist in the moment.

This is why I say she used irrational means to decide to lay off. I recognized maternal instincts in her reasoning, which I'll quote here:

> Finally, I had this moment where I felt that my efforts to ramp up the pressure to force him to stop had crossed some line. I felt I was turning into an abusive parent.

> At that moment, I decided this had to stop. I didn't care if he licked his hands the rest of his life. It couldn't be worse than this.

Rational analysis failed, some other way of deciding how to handle it took hold. Notice the semantic shift here. She moved from articulating her decision-making process in a cold, logical fashion, then after the failure, she shifts to an empathic, emotional basis.

Over-reliance on and unexamined belief in rationality drives this. Sometimes there are multiple truths out there that you are going to have to choose between, with nothing to help to distinguish them. The over-rational mindset will concoct meaningless and even counter-productive forms of "rationality" to paper over their fundamental ignorance. The colloquial term at hand is lamp posting.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree, and while a good % of HN readers probably are making a lot, the vast majority of people (at least in the US) are living month to month.

I went mattress shopping yesterday. The fact that there's options for financing a $2000 purchase is indicative that "just enough" is, in fact, not.

This is one of those crazy cases where parts of American population were seemingly hypnotised by advertising and are spending insane amounts of money on a commodity item. Here in Poland, the most I've paid for a mattress was an equivalent of $130. I've never had problems with them.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#108
post #99

As an outlier poor kid who made money, I can really relate to this. This is a thought-provoking piece, and hits on a lot of things I think about often. But, I think some of us aren’t necessarily in the hedonic treadmill game. Some of us keep working to gain more wealth not be of higher social status but because we fear being relegated back to poor-guy status. Now, I often do want to be the non-rich guy again. I see m…

Sad but true. Zrue freedom and liberty are hard to find nowadays if they ever were easy that is.

Re: The money, job, marriage myth: are you happy yet?

#110
post #99

As an outlier poor kid who made money, I can really relate to this. This is a thought-provoking piece, and hits on a lot of things I think about often. But, I think some of us aren’t necessarily in the hedonic treadmill game. Some of us keep working to gain more wealth not be of higher social status but because we fear being relegated back to poor-guy status. Now, I often do want to be the non-rich guy again. I see m…

Great input.

As a short form :

"I'm not running to the top, I'm running away from the bottom."

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