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Comcast rejected by small town, residents vote for municipal fiber instead

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Re: Comcast rejected by small town, residents vote for municipal fiber instead

#101

Post by lotsofpulp »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #95
lotsofpulp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's inevitable when a private entity has monopoly of infrastructure. The people have no choice but to buy from it, the private entity has minimal incentive to invest in the infrastructure since it has a guaranteed revenue stream. The only thing they have to do is keep the population placated just enough so that enough voters don't get mobilized to make a stink out of it. For utilities, there is no reason why a priva…

>Water, sewer, gas, electricity, and internet infrastructure should be owned by taxpayers. We'll have the same situation we do with police departments where they're basically impossible to punish for wrongdoing because you're just punishing taxpayers by proxy.

Water, gas, and electric utilities work great. What is different about internet?

Re: Comcast rejected by small town, residents vote for municipal fiber instead

#102

Post by dsfyu404ed »

Shivetya wrote: post #27
StreamBright wrote: post #6

When the company offerings can be beaten with local government offerings you know something is bad. Wondering why US has such terrible internet options.

why do people assume a local government will be the end all to services? they can be likely just as bad and when they decided your neighborhood isn't a priority you will have little to no recourse. I do like the town's propose internet speeds and conditions compared to comcast but look at the extra money listed in the article. nearly a million had already been spend to map out the deployment and it will be another mi…

>why do people assume a local government will be the end all to services?

Because they don't realize that Parks and Rec is a show about a fictional utopia where government is capable of doing things and isn't all a bunch of fiefdoms trying to burn through money less the money be allocated to a different fiefdom.

Like seriously, once you see how that sausage is made you'll never want to eat it. There's good people in government but that doesn't mean it's possible for them to accomplish good things in government.

Re: Comcast rejected by small town, residents vote for municipal fiber instead

#103

Post by OldFatCactus »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #15
epoch_100 wrote: post #2

Good! By allowing individual municipalities to manage their own Internet infrastructure, we can help keep the Internet from becoming effectively owned by the likes of Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon.

> By allowing individual municipalities to manage their own Internet infrastructure, we can help keep the Internet from becoming effectively owned by the likes of Comcast, AT&T, and Verizon I'm nervous about how thoughtlessly we're embracing public ISP ownership. Local governments are notoriously corrupt, in both politics and police. These referenda expand their power without rebalancing any checks or balances. We ju…

Sometimes reading comments on HN I feel like I stumbled into opposite-land.

Private operators are far more "notoriously corrupt" than local government. At large scale, government representation starts to break down and the will of the majority can become distorted. But at a local level, this is absolutely the better alternative to private ownership of what should be considered a fundamental human right.

Re: Comcast rejected by small town, residents vote for municipal fiber instead

#104

Post by technobabble »

bronco21016 wrote: post #86

I hate Comcast with a passion and have always fantasized about living in a progressive municipality that provides fiber to the home. However, a few years ago I bought a home and it’s only been over the last 6 months or so I’ve realized how horribly corrupt and mismanaged small city governments can be. We’re being sucked dry by our mayor who hired her cousin as city manager for an exorbitant compensation package. They…

I highly recommend The Dictator's Handbook in order to fully understand the de facto politics going on in governments.

Re: Comcast rejected by small town, residents vote for municipal fiber instead

#105

Post by Spivak »

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #93
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we would be talking about the public utility of having network cables (of some baseline quality) running to every building in a municipality that any number of ISPs can provide the actual service for Me too. And I think municipal broadband is the right first step--I'm lobbying for it in New York. But as it scales, we'll move from competent municipalities to incompetent one to evil ones. I'd prefer we figure out the…

I'm kind of shocked that you'd openly admit to this kind of behavior. You're lobbying for the public to foot the bill for public infrastructure to be used solely by private entities, then intentionally introducing inefficiencies by leasing usage out to said private entities. I'm guessing after customers pay more taxes and still have the same internet bill, you'll then lobby that public internet is a failure and advoc…

> You're lobbying for the public to foot the bill for public infrastructure to be used solely by private entities

By this token this describes basically all public infrastructure then. It's not like roads were built with the idea that only public employees would use them.

> then intentionally introducing inefficiencies

Compared to the inefficiency of having ISPs have to build multiple separate physical networks? This service can be provided to ISPs at zero cost if it really worries you.

> I'm guessing after customers pay more taxes and still have the same internet bill.

Well duh, internet is priced based on how much people value it, not how much it costs to provide. Even in a world where the infrastructure is publicly owned no ISP would dare kill the golden calf by significantly cutting prices. ISPs typically compete in the other direction by providing better service at a given price.

> public internet is a failure

This wouldn't be 'public internet' by any reasonable definition, this would be local loop unbundling. It provides the means for an ISP to enter the market without significant construction costs. Any promise that this will reduce prices or lead to better service is purely speculative.

Re: Comcast rejected by small town, residents vote for municipal fiber instead

#106

Post by FakeComments »

bliblah wrote: post #98
bronco21016 wrote: post #86

I hate Comcast with a passion and have always fantasized about living in a progressive municipality that provides fiber to the home. However, a few years ago I bought a home and it’s only been over the last 6 months or so I’ve realized how horribly corrupt and mismanaged small city governments can be. We’re being sucked dry by our mayor who hired her cousin as city manager for an exorbitant compensation package. They…

The difference is that in this case because this is a more "local" power you, the consumer/voter, actually have the power to hold them liable. Imagine living in a Town with less than 2.5k people living in rural midwest and comcast screws you over, what are you going to do? They only answer to Stockholders and "big fish" markets. Elected officials care and respond to votes and the smaller the area of control, the easi…

Also, the city doesn’t do the whole deal necessarily — they can do things like lay the fiber, then lease it to various providers to figure out transit from the local plant across the internet.

This would be more like the dial-up days, where the line to connect to the network is fairly independent from who provides the service.

Re: Comcast rejected by small town, residents vote for municipal fiber instead

#107

Post by bilbo0s »

bliblah wrote: post #98
bronco21016 wrote: post #86

I hate Comcast with a passion and have always fantasized about living in a progressive municipality that provides fiber to the home. However, a few years ago I bought a home and it’s only been over the last 6 months or so I’ve realized how horribly corrupt and mismanaged small city governments can be. We’re being sucked dry by our mayor who hired her cousin as city manager for an exorbitant compensation package. They…

The difference is that in this case because this is a more "local" power you, the consumer/voter, actually have the power to hold them liable. Imagine living in a Town with less than 2.5k people living in rural midwest and comcast screws you over, what are you going to do? They only answer to Stockholders and "big fish" markets. Elected officials care and respond to votes and the smaller the area of control, the easi…

>Imagine living in a Town with less than 2.5k people living in rural midwest...

And:

>Elected officials care and respond to votes and the smaller the area of control, the easier it is to get your voice heard...

I think either you haven't lived in such a town, or small towns in Wisconsin, where I'm from, are atypical in this regard. Not sure which, since I've never personally lived in any small town outside of Wisconsin.

In my experience, bronco21016 is right to be suspicious of local government. But again, YMMV. Different places may have different dynamics.

Re: Comcast rejected by small town, residents vote for municipal fiber instead

#109

Post by gbear605 »

bronco21016 wrote: post #86

I hate Comcast with a passion and have always fantasized about living in a progressive municipality that provides fiber to the home. However, a few years ago I bought a home and it’s only been over the last 6 months or so I’ve realized how horribly corrupt and mismanaged small city governments can be. We’re being sucked dry by our mayor who hired her cousin as city manager for an exorbitant compensation package. They…

A model that works really well in large parts of New England is "town meeting" - all the citizens of the town who want to get together annually or semiannually and vote on all the important issues. There are also selectmen, who generally guide the way, and other town staff, who manage the day to day issues, but control is fundamentally in control of the citizens. It only works in towns with a population up to about 10,000 though, before it becomes infeasible to get all those people together and the town needs to react more quickly.

In a lot of small towns around here they require that two ISPs provide coverage, so there is actual competition and we get great service fairly cheaply.

Re: Comcast rejected by small town, residents vote for municipal fiber instead

#110

Post by gbear605 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #107
bliblah wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that in this case because this is a more "local" power you, the consumer/voter, actually have the power to hold them liable. Imagine living in a Town with less than 2.5k people living in rural midwest and comcast screws you over, what are you going to do? They only answer to Stockholders and "big fish" markets. Elected officials care and respond to votes and the smaller the area of control, the easi…

> Imagine living in a Town with less than 2.5k people living in rural midwest... And: > Elected officials care and respond to votes and the smaller the area of control, the easier it is to get your voice heard... I think either you haven't lived in such a town, or small towns in Wisconsin, where I'm from, are atypical in this regard. Not sure which, since I've never personally lived in any small town outside of Wisco…

Many small towns definitely do listen to their residents. Not all, unfortunately.
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