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Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis

nytimes.com

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Re: Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis

#101

Post by chowchowchow »

ariwilson wrote: post #17
samfisher83 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Tim cook believed this why is he taking billions from google to be the default search engine? Why not pick a more privacy friendly search engine?

If he was being honest, Cook would have said: "Privacy to us is a comparative advantage, because we can't make world class web products." You can see the difference between these two statements in action in cases where Apple absolutely needs government approval and market share (China) or a good product (search engine / Google), they immediately ditch this "human right".

That comparative advantage has also made them the most valuable company in the world so your normative lens may be a bit biased — it seems like one could easily say googles comparative disadvantage is their business model precludes then from offering lucrative high margin privacy-protecting products.

The point about maps feels rather non germane as apple does have its own maps product.

Re: Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis

#102

Post by pm90 »

bepotts wrote: post #27
jseliger wrote: post #11

Is there an actual crisis, outside the media narrative? Has Facebook seen an actual fall in monthly, weekly, or daily active users? To me, this story reads a lot like a media narrative that has very little to do with users's actual lives. And I've been reading variations on "Why Facebook sucks" and "Why Facebook is doomed" for a very long time. It's like the "Why this is the year of Linux on the desktop," but for med…

This is exactly it. Look, Facebook needs to get its act together. They are in need for serious reform. However, mainstream media knows that Facebook is under a ton of pressure and these types of stories generate a ton of clicks. I know people want Facebook to die, but Facebook's usage has remained pretty much the same during all these negative stories. The public is not hating Facebook as much as people want to belie…

> The public is not hating Facebook as much as people want to believe.

> But the media has its narrative and it'll continue this "Facebook is evil" beat. The same with Clinton's email server, and more recently, the same with that immigrant caravan coming up from Central America.

The media doesn't just report on the public's current taste; its also an agent for advising the public to change their taste. To throw light on darkness. The article is not just some slander on Facebook, it goes into detail about exactly how much Facebook execs knew about the problem and the (extreme, IMO) political steps they've taken to protect their interests.

Re: Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis

#103

Post by pm90 »

dcow wrote: post #94
ForHackernews wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you can bloody well hate some business and still patronize it. I'd wager most Americans hate their cable company. I agree there's little risk of users deserting Facebook en masse, but what we may see is lawmakers coming down on FB like a ton of bricks. It will be popular, too: Heavily regulating social media and slapping them with massive fines will be winning issues with constituents on both sides of the ais…

If 3 other people pledge with me, I’ll delete my Facebook account right now. I’ve already exported all my data.

I did it 3 months ago. Its really made my life so much better. No more worrying about not being good enough as my peers who live far away in a different country. No more dealing with ads.

However, I cheated somewhat and switched to twitter and continued to stay on Instagram (for sharing photos) and Whatsapp (talk to social circle).

Re: Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis

#104

Post by humanetech »

skeptic_69 wrote: post #45
thanatropism wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a small piece of a wider process, but Jaron Lanier is having such a global impact; probably much more than what Anglos imagine.

not just jaron lanier! there are multiple thinkers who are fellow travelrs. Cal newport, Tristan harris, Nicholas Carr...

Tristan Harris, founder of the non-profit Center for Humane Technology (CHT) [0] has been quite successful at high government circles and board level of big tech companies.

At the time Mark Zuckerberg didn't want to testify in the UK, he testified to the UK House of Commons commission to inform them about Fake News [1]

In the corporate world the strategy is to 'Engage employees', make them aware of the harms of technology and philosophy of Humane Tech. I found it enlightening to see him address the opening keynote at Dreamforce 2018 "How to Stop Technology from Destabilizing the World" [2] to a hall full of SalesForce customers.

The CHT now focuses primarily on fake news, disinformation, political influencing problems that arise from tech - i.e. the topics where the risk for civic breakdown is highest, but they have also played a role in bringing the concept of 'Time Well Spent' - focussed on healthy tech use - across at e.g. Google and Apple (but much to be done still in this area).

PS. I represent the Humane Tech Community, which is affiliated yet operates independently of the CHT, as a grassroots movement [3].

[0] https://humanetech.com

[1] https://community.humanetech.com/t/witness-account-of-trista...

[2] https://community.humanetech.com/t/must-see-video-explaining...

[3] https://community.humanetech.com/t/who-we-are-what-we-do-and...

Re: Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis

#105

Post by nickcotter »

dcow wrote: post #94
ForHackernews wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you can bloody well hate some business and still patronize it. I'd wager most Americans hate their cable company. I agree there's little risk of users deserting Facebook en masse, but what we may see is lawmakers coming down on FB like a ton of bricks. It will be popular, too: Heavily regulating social media and slapping them with massive fines will be winning issues with constituents on both sides of the ais…

If 3 other people pledge with me, I’ll delete my Facebook account right now. I’ve already exported all my data.

I left their whole enterprise, I was just sick of them from top to bottom.

I still use twitter, but I keep my distance, and it’s hardly a social platform.

Re: Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis

#106

Post by [deleted] »

samfisher83 wrote: post #7
minimaxir wrote: post #4

Funny quote: > “We’re not going to traffic in your personal life,” Tim Cook, Apple’s chief executive, said in an MSNBC interview. “Privacy to us is a human right. It’s a civil liberty.” (Mr. Cook’s criticisms infuriated Mr. Zuckerberg, who later ordered his management team to use only Android phones, since the operating system has far more users than Apple’s.)

If Tim cook believed this why is he taking billions from google to be the default search engine? Why not pick a more privacy friendly search engine?

[deleted]

Re: Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis

#108

Post by klingebeil »

bepotts wrote: post #27
jseliger wrote: post #11

Is there an actual crisis, outside the media narrative? Has Facebook seen an actual fall in monthly, weekly, or daily active users? To me, this story reads a lot like a media narrative that has very little to do with users's actual lives. And I've been reading variations on "Why Facebook sucks" and "Why Facebook is doomed" for a very long time. It's like the "Why this is the year of Linux on the desktop," but for med…

This is exactly it. Look, Facebook needs to get its act together. They are in need for serious reform. However, mainstream media knows that Facebook is under a ton of pressure and these types of stories generate a ton of clicks. I know people want Facebook to die, but Facebook's usage has remained pretty much the same during all these negative stories. The public is not hating Facebook as much as people want to belie…

If newspapers were only interested in clicks, no one would write such a story. No journalist would spend 6 months of their time researching such a story. Would you please stop with this simplistic media meme? This is not how things work in journalism.

Re: Delay, Deny and Deflect: How Facebook’s Leaders Fought Through Crisis

#109

Post by vincvinc »

jseliger wrote: post #11

Is there an actual crisis, outside the media narrative? Has Facebook seen an actual fall in monthly, weekly, or daily active users? To me, this story reads a lot like a media narrative that has very little to do with users's actual lives. And I've been reading variations on "Why Facebook sucks" and "Why Facebook is doomed" for a very long time. It's like the "Why this is the year of Linux on the desktop," but for med…

Facebook’s downfall does not necessarily have to come from “lower user engagement”. Think about the context that FB operates in.

Imagine more and more governments reading more and more stories about how this powerful platform is influencing elections, allowing hate speech, spreading lies and even causing genocides. You don’t have to have a too big imagination to see what they will do next.

Not to mention the influence of all these awful stories on how end users feel when they go on the site. Smoking, too, has many “daily active users”.

A crisis for Facebook surely can start with media narrative. “Growth solves all problems” is only for early-stage startups, not for social networks used by 1 in 4 humans.

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