Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#101

Post by fatnoah » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #87

specialp wrote: post #41

"So for now, the Pittsburgh native and father to young children is living with his mother" In the past that wasn't so much of an option. You had to survive. I grew up with parents working jobs like the one he eschewed. They wouldn't dare try to live with my comparatively much more wealthy grandma. So now living with your parents into your 30s is like taking basic income. This is all fine if someone is truly doing thi…

Don't know why you're downvoted. It's very easy for a person to rationalize sitting at home by telling himself he is holding out for a job that will "pay what I'm worth" but not doing anything concrete to make that happen. When I was in my late teens/20s I never thought moving back home was an acceptable option. Working at McDonalds or delivering pizza and living with roomates felt more honorable than moving back in…

IMHO (and I emphasize that), the main difference is that when I was that age, getting a job, making money, and being independent were my goals. For the younger generation, they came into the world at a time of economic turmoil and skyrocketing student loan costs. By the time things recovered, housing markets in many areas were back to the races before they could catch up. Throw in more of an emphasis on doing, making, and experiencing things, and hustling for a buck is less of a priority.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#102

Post by peterburkimsher » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 8:54 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #84

peterburkimsher wrote: post #63

I'm a 29 year old male. I've been trying to get a new job since March, and I've been unemployed since August. I have an MEng in Electronic Systems Engineering, and over 3 years continuous relevant work experience. I have tried applying through Seek and TradeMe, and got no response. I tried writing custom cover letters and applying on company websites. I've rewritten my résumé several times based on contradictory advi…

What do you want to do as a job? What do the people who have this job have on their CVs? Have you found people on LinkedIn who hire for what you want to do? Also recruiters are a dead end for everyone who isn't already a very close match for a job that's going. It's incredibly frustrating for everyone, but that's their incentive structure. And what do you mean Apple II? Isn't that ancient?

I'll take anything as a job now. I can get my own Working Holiday visa. But I've been turned down by farms and construction companies, not only tech companies.

I don't know how to find people on LinkedIn, but I created a new account just to spam that way. I'll keep trying to add lots of strangers and hope I find a friendly one.

Yes, I used an Apple II with ADTPro to migrate data off lots of old 5.25" floppies for archiving purposes. I thought that I could start a business to do that, if I could get computer repair shops to advertise for me. So I asked the repair shops, but most didn't even reply, and the only one that did told me that I should set up the business first and then they'll ask their manager whether they'd be willing to put up a poster. My logic is that older people are rich and powerful, and fondly remember their old computers. So the data migration would put me in contact with people who could give me a real job later.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#103

Post by divs1210 » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 9:09 PM UTC

geezerjay wrote: post #90

divs1210 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a capitalistic society, The Market = God. Ever heard people claiming that The Market will fix things? Where have I heard that before?

> In a capitalistic society, The Market = God. Enough with the puerile poetry. In a capitalist society, the market is people like you and me who like to decide for themselves what's in their own best interests. The market fixes problems because people likeyou and me always find a balance between what they supply and demand, and what trade-offs they are willing to accept. There is no magic or witchcraft.

i look around and see a world struggling with pollution and inequality. Do you have any data/studies backing your claim, or am I supposed to take it all on faith?

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#104

Post by justinator » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 9:20 PM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #34

> Men -- long America’s economically privileged gender It depends on how you look at it. Don't get me wrong, men have had lots of privileges, but they have long been expected to work. Those social expectations are rapidly disappearing, and somewhat shifting to women, and we're seeing rates of depression and suicide rise for women in roughly the same time frame. Calling it privileged is a very one-sided way of looking…

Are you arguing against white men's privilege compared to whom, exactly? Their past selves?

I think a lot of the challenges you list apply to most people, and even then white males have a big leg up on most anyone. Times are tough all over. Tougher for those more disenfranchised, already.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#105

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 9:26 PM UTC

justinator wrote: post #104

ravenstine wrote: post #34

> Men -- long America’s economically privileged gender It depends on how you look at it. Don't get me wrong, men have had lots of privileges, but they have long been expected to work. Those social expectations are rapidly disappearing, and somewhat shifting to women, and we're seeing rates of depression and suicide rise for women in roughly the same time frame. Calling it privileged is a very one-sided way of looking…

Are you arguing against white men's privilege compared to whom, exactly? Their past selves? I think a lot of the challenges you list apply to most people, and even then white males have a big leg up on most anyone. Times are tough all over. Tougher for those more disenfranchised, already.

[deleted]

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#106

Post by panarky » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #66

ams6110 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If employers have job openings they can't fill, while workers are idle because they won't work so cheap, then shouldn't the market-clearing wage increase? If not, what's preventing it? Other workers will work cheap. See, it doesn't matter what you think your time is worth. The supply of people willing to work is what determines what it is worth. Minimum wage jobs can literally be done by almost anyone who is not me…

But, what happens where there are no workers? Everywhere I go there are signs saying help wanted. But, unemployment is practically non-existent where I live. Everyone who wants a job, has a job.

Everyone who wants a job at the wage employers are offering has a job.

The unemployment rate doesn't count people who aren't looking for work.

The labor force participation rate measures the percentage of the working-age population between 16 and 64 who are either working or looking for work.

That's currently about 62%.

If wages were higher, then more people would be willing to work.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#107

Post by ravenstine » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

justinator wrote: post #104

ravenstine wrote: post #34

> Men -- long America’s economically privileged gender It depends on how you look at it. Don't get me wrong, men have had lots of privileges, but they have long been expected to work. Those social expectations are rapidly disappearing, and somewhat shifting to women, and we're seeing rates of depression and suicide rise for women in roughly the same time frame. Calling it privileged is a very one-sided way of looking…

Are you arguing against white men's privilege compared to whom, exactly? Their past selves? I think a lot of the challenges you list apply to most people, and even then white males have a big leg up on most anyone. Times are tough all over. Tougher for those more disenfranchised, already.

I'm not arguing against white men's privilege. And by the way, the term "white men" can be found nowhere in the article or in my comment, and I don't know why you are dragging race into this.

And no, I'm not arguing against the privileges of men. I'm criticizing the use of that word, in comparison to the rest of the article, as a covert gendered judgment. Just because men continue to have a "privilege" doesn't mean they will continue to want that privilege. When there's no incentive, why exactly would a man or a woman want the responsibilities that come with a high-flying career, dating, marriage, having a family, home ownership, retirement planning, et cetera et cetera? What this journalist sees as "perplexing" is hardly inexplicable.

Yes, those challenges indeed apply to most if not all people. Just because other people have things worse than others doesn't mean that one privileged group's behavior can't be explained by their own disenfranchisement. The fact that nobody can answer the question I've repeatedly asked demonstrates my point; the benefits of the man's privilege is in decline, hence men aren't going to participate in the economy the same way they used to. Why is it that you are redirecting the discussion to those(unnamed) with relatively worse privation?

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#108

Post by ac29 » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 9:38 PM UTC

peterburkimsher wrote: post #63

I'm a 29 year old male. I've been trying to get a new job since March, and I've been unemployed since August. I have an MEng in Electronic Systems Engineering, and over 3 years continuous relevant work experience. I have tried applying through Seek and TradeMe, and got no response. I tried writing custom cover letters and applying on company websites. I've rewritten my résumé several times based on contradictory advi…

I took a look at your resume: it looks like from 2008-2014, you didn't hold any job for more than a few months, which is a bit of a red flag. Were you a student at the time? It doesnt say anywhere what years you were in school. Some jobs specifically say contract work, which explains why they are short, some don't say, which makes it unclear if you were just fired or quit after a short period of time.

Your bio also shows you lived in 12 countries in less than 10 years, and possibly worked in many of them: sounds fun, but also doesn't sound like someone who is willing to commit to a job long term.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#109

Post by rootusrootus » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 9:48 PM UTC

patient_zero wrote: post #13

This article was pretty bad. "Hot" labor market huh? isn't it mostly low income service jobs and degree required jobs that are "hot"? I wouldn't know from this article, because it chooses to ask questions rather than provide info. I weep for the one young man who is studying to be an EMT. I learned recently that that job, which is tasked often with saving lives, pays ~12 bucks an hour. The "hot" labor market is a far…

EMT is entry level, though, and you are basically competing against a workforce where most people have gone past that to become paramedics. Not to say that a paramedic salary is all that lucrative itself, but it's about 10K higher than EMT.

Re: Millennial Men Leave Perplexing Hole in Hot U.S. Job Market

#110

Post by rootusrootus » Wed, Nov 07, 2018, 9:53 PM UTC

bargl wrote: post #9

Phrodo_00 wrote: post #2

While the article did a lot of pointing at men not working, it did little to show what the Hole in the "Hot U.S. Market" was. Maybe the people they were talking about would benefit from that information.

There are a TON of Blue collar jobs that are only getting higher pay in the Seattle area right now. Entry level Electrician, 25/hr. After the Apprenticeship 50/hr (2 years I think). I believe plumbing, construction, etc are in the same boom right now. That's a really awesome job for someone who is struggling to make ends meet at a pizza joint (example from article). This is 100% anecdotal and regional. So take it wit…

My brother-in-law is a journeyman electrician in Seattle and the going rate is around 40-45/hour. Not a bad wage at all. But it does require about four years to get to that point.