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CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

money.cnn.com

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Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#101

Post by contentvoid »

btilly wrote: post #74
brudgers wrote: post #28

Saying "Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand" is somewhat analogous to saying "Mitsubishi is a Dying Consumer Brand." Though the structures are different, consumer products are only a part of their portfolio. Both have successful industrial lines, and both have flagship consumer lines that often draw flack. Importantly, both own highly successful consumer brands e.g Xbox and Nikon, respectively. What the article misse…

What the article misses is that Microsoft has an asset that it's competitors often don't: trust. What technical person trusts Microsoft? I don't mean to be flippant, but the reputation they have among technical people that I know is that their stuff is poorly designed, insecure, and buggy. Disclaimer: I got fed up with their poorly designed and buggy software in the late 90s, and have had Linux as my primary developm…

XP, for example, has some level of support into 2014, so from a business perspective one can trust that they'll provide support for quite some time, that is something you won't get from Apple. How this has any bearing on a discussion of Microsoft's consumer relevance I am not sure.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#102

Post by philwelch »

blub wrote: post #43
cryptoz wrote: post #3

I firmly believe that most of Microsoft's failings in the consumer market come from their fear of the World Wide Web. Microsoft does everything they can to hide their users from the real power of the web, since everyone - including Microsoft - knows that a ubiquitous Web means fewer sales of Windows and Office. Their logic in locking users to Windows-based experiences is old, tired, and not going to work anymore. Peo…

What is so great about HTML5 and JS for me, the user? That you can get my location? That you can have video (just like Flash, except slower)? Or is it that you can store stuff on my machine? HTML5 is one more step in the direction of web pages pretending to be applications. Reading about "the web" on HN is like reading the story of Icarus. HN'ers are so enchanted by web apps that they forget they can only fly on the…

Do you have an actual argument about why web applications are inferior to native applications? You're just stating a lot of things ("HTML5 is one more step in the direction of web pages pretending to be applications.", we "would like to replace everything with a browser") without really explaining why they're bad.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#103

Post by FiddlerClamp »

cryptoz wrote: post #34
rubinelli wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the first thing consumers ask once they turn on the computer is "Where's Word?" I think how well Chrome OS machines answer this question will make or break them.

Chrome OS defaults to opening Office files with Office Live, whch is a pretty good answer I think.

Any word processor that can't round-trip Word files without messing up formatting (and specifically headers/footers, track changes, and text boxes) is not going to succeed for people who collaborate with others in Word.

I've tried every online word processor and many Linux ones, and they all fail at retaining this moderate-level formatting.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#104

Post by philwelch »

icegreentea wrote: post #2

"Microsoft's attempts to build a social network through Windows Live have failed to gain traction. It has no real answer to Facebook. " I take issue with this. Pretty much no one has a 'real' answer to Facebook. In fact, Microsoft didn't even really try. And whatever they did try, they actually gave up on. As I remember, when explaining the Facebook integration into the newest Windows Live "nobody wants another faceb…

You could make the exact same arguments about Google, yet here's Bing, 10 years late to the party.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#105

Post by jerhinesmith »

points wrote: post #85
gboyer wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's a little strange that they haven't tried to put IE on the Xbox--but I'm glad they haven't. The whole reason I have a game console is to have an appliance that is dedicated to video games. I have plenty of other devices that provide a superior browsing experience.

I agree with you - I wouldn't use a webbrowser on a games console. But the population disagrees - they do :/

I'm sorry, but source? Stats? Anything other than anecdote to back that up?

I tried to find some information, but the best I could do was from an article written in 2009 (http://www.next-gen.biz/news/ps3%E2%80%99s-web-browser-usage...):

"The PS3's browser has a 0.04 share of the 'internet market', a miniscule proportion when compared to, say, the PC's 88.7 percent majority, yet it's a figure which sits comfortably ahead of the Wii's 0.01 percent."

Granted, those numbers are horribly out of date, but it would seem to indicate that the population (at large) does agree.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#106

Post by Typhon »

DavidBishop wrote: post #98
Typhon wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are strict indeed : "We do believe we have a moral responsibility to keep porn off the iPhone," (Steve Jobs, quoted on the Wikipedia page about the AppStore) Even though you bought the thing (and it's not exactly cheap), you cannot put it to all the legal uses you'd like to. There is someone else deciding for you that some things do not make for "a good user experience", and, as seen in the quote above, they enf…

They mean porn apps. You can get all the porn you want. The browser is wide open.

>«They mean porn apps»

That's not what Jobs said. And besides, it doesn't change the problem : what counts as a "porn app" ? Is an app that allows you to download, among thousands of E-Books, the kama sutra, (one of the cases discussed on the wikipedia page) a "porn app" ?

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#107

Post by jbarham »

kenjackson wrote: post #66
cryptoz wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people continue to pay for Windows even though Linux is free 99% of that is only because Windows is available in stores and Linux typically is not. I think this will all change in about a month when Chrome OS comes out and is preinstalled on cheap computers in stores like Best Buy, Futureshop, or wherever people buy computers these days. Most consumers no longer care that they are running a specific OS; they want t…

Consumers nevered cared about a specific OS. They've always just wanted a set of applications. The problem is that Chrome only answers one class of apps that people must have... web browser. But it lacks Office (Open Office and Google Docs are not replacements for most people). Lacks a decent gaming ecosystem -- does it even have the Sims? And is missing a lot of applications that users use along the long tail... suc…

> I think a low cost Mac and the evolution of the iPad is a LOT scarier (by an order of magnitude) to Microsoft.

Considering the cheapest Mac you can buy is the $700 mini and you still have to buy a keyboard and screen, I don't think MS is too worried that. Apple is much more interested in margins than market share when it comes to PCs.

On the other hand, the $500 iPad is definitely something that should be keeping Ballmer up at night...

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#108

Post by lkrubner »

brentb wrote: post #52
lkrubner wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"since everyone - including Microsoft - knows that a ubiquitous Web means fewer sales of Windows and Office" I would think that the real problem is Microsoft's unwillingness to become something completely new, something other than Windows and Office. Apple was a computer company, then it became a cell phone company, a music company, a lot of other things. Microsoft now sort of reminds me of Sun circa 1999: yes, they…

"I would think that the real problem is Microsoft's unwillingness to become something completely new, something other than Windows and Office." Inability, perhaps. Unwillingness? You're out of your mind. Microsoft has had their fingers in smartphones, music players, search engines, touch computing, web mail, [you name it] for YEARS. And they are not just dabbling... they have poured billions into these areas, trying…

"The fact that Microsoft's efforts in this area have been largely unsuccessful over the past decade doesn't mean they aren't trying or aren't willing."

Yes it does. That is exactly what it means.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#109

Post by contextfree »

cryptoz wrote: post #84
blub wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is so great about HTML5 and JS for me, the user? That you can get my location? That you can have video (just like Flash, except slower)? Or is it that you can store stuff on my machine? HTML5 is one more step in the direction of web pages pretending to be applications. Reading about "the web" on HN is like reading the story of Icarus. HN'ers are so enchanted by web apps that they forget they can only fly on the…

> That you can have video (just like Flash, except slower)? Actually HTML5 is faster, and Flash is slower [for me]. So video on the web is a big deal with HTML5. > HTML5 is one more step in the direction of web pages pretending to be applications. No, it is one more step in the direction of web pages becoming applications. You can't possibly tell me that Gmail isn't a full application! It's much faster and more respo…

Personally, I just find web applications extremely painful to develop (on all the frameworks/dev environments I've tried, not just Microsoft ones). Desktop development is a lot more fun, but web apps are where the jobs are these days, unfortunately.

Re: CNN Money: Microsoft is a Dying Consumer Brand

#110

Post by potatolicious »

points wrote: post #59
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? The XBox uses the web in the best way possible for a games console - on-line gaming. Maybe it's just me but I find a console a rubbish browsing platform - I've got browsers on my PS3, PSP and Wii and never use them. It is possible that Microsoft just don't have a browser in the 360 because it's not a great place to put a browser. Microsoft own Hotmail, they've ported Office on-line, XBox supports on-line gami…

FWIW, I disagree. When MS announced support for facebook on the xBox, I thought "hmm why not just give users a browser". Then they announced twitter integration... "Umm how about just stuff a browser on there". It's farcical. But OTOH, it fits right with MS's plan - they detest the www. It's open. It's free. It's not a walled garden they can monetize. Last time I heard the web division at MS still makes a huge loss.…

Have you used the PS3 browser? Or worse, the Wii browser?

One has to navigating the web with a joystick (have you tried it? It's fifth circle of hell terrible), the other has you suffering from cramps in 10 minutes flat.

If you've used the browsers, you know just astronomically bad those ideas are. A browser doesn't not belong on a joystick-driven device, it's slow to use and frustrating as hell. So why would MS put a browser on the Xbox?

And how exactly would a browser on the Xbox decrease their lock-in?

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