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Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

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101–110 of 255 posts

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#101

It wouldn't be the first time a crew errs in calculating their takeoff performance and uses too low a thrust or flap setting. Everyone on that plane is lucky to be alive, as others have died after similar takeoffs.

Too low a thrust?

I thought that on airliners pilots input runway length, altitude and wind strength and direction, and the computer optimized the thrust accordingly?

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#102

Pilot did not follow the climbing trajectory, too low and hit the boundary wall. Nothing surprising in India where everyone follows his/her rules, if such thing called rules exist. Looks like pilot was flying as if he is driving on Indian road, a dent or a tear here and there is not a problem, as long as engine is running. Finally, Indian sky has become a reflection of Indian roads, what a shame!

I think it's not appropriate to generalize. How many such incidents happen?

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#103

Question for professional pilots here: does this feel like normal behaviour for a pilot? From my limited experience of pilots, this seems entirely unlike the kind of behaviour you'd expect - they're usually conservative when it comes to safety or is that just the projected image to reassure the public?!

I used to work as a flight instructor and flew corporate. I’ve flown small airplanes with a bunch of airline pilots, whatever that is worth. This does not seem like normal behavior from an airline pilot at all. I can see about 10% of private pilots doing something like this. It would probably be someone who has been flying a long time and gotten way too comfortable. Things always work out, so why not this time? The d…

Here's the statement from the Airline. Not sure if 3600 hours is good experience in the industry? May be it is.. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpSNZO4V4AAPjKa.jpg:large

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#104

Just saw the pics of the damage on the twitter thread linked-to in the article. See below. https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status/1050595274869993474 Looks quite severe. I'm impressed the plane flew for 3 hours without getting destablized and crashing.... Air India has the worst safety reputation in India, and several accidents / incidents. I flew Spice Jet a few times over the last few weeks when I was there visiti…

Please. Spice Jet is perhaps second to only AI in sucking in all aspects of a good flight. They get delayed, their service is bad - you press the air hostess button, she comes after 5 minutes, then takes another 20 to get you that glass of water with a look that says they you're indebted to her. Food served is average at best and pathetic in almost all flights of theirs. Check-in counters filled with girls that talk too much and focus more on being pretty than being fast.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#105
post #78

Honest question: why aren't pilots forced to take alcohol tests before flights? There was some JetBlue incident about 10 years ago, IIRC.

Are forced alcohol tests given anywhere?

Not that I know of. Mandatory drug testing in sports is now common. When operating heavy machinery, and when a lot of lives are at stake, I feel some safety procedures are called for.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does reduced air pressure speed up the removal of alcohol via breathing? If a fever can, wouldn’t alcohol do the same?

other way around - reduced air pressure is reduced oxygen, which is lower metabolism. Higher metabolism causes EtOH degradation to go more quickly. Fever is higher metabolism.

Your blood oxygenation will stay at 95-99% even while in a cabin.

Metabolism in aircraft is pretty low: you’re generally sitting idle, but I think the alcohol metabolism is still constant except the terminal metabolism.

Fever is partly metabolism, but largely reduced cooling.

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#107

Question for professional pilots here: does this feel like normal behaviour for a pilot? From my limited experience of pilots, this seems entirely unlike the kind of behaviour you'd expect - they're usually conservative when it comes to safety or is that just the projected image to reassure the public?!

Unfortunately don’t have time for a long post at the moment, but as an airline pilot and instructor/check pilot, I can say that extreme incompetence exists in the airline world, especially in Africa, India, SE Asia. There could be some very good reasons that they chose to continue, and often I learn those reasons when the facts are released, discovering that a good decision was made. I’ll be following the investigati…

--I can say that extreme incompetence exists in the airline world, especially in Africa, India, SE Asia

including Hong Kong?

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately don’t have time for a long post at the moment, but as an airline pilot and instructor/check pilot, I can say that extreme incompetence exists in the airline world, especially in Africa, India, SE Asia. There could be some very good reasons that they chose to continue, and often I learn those reasons when the facts are released, discovering that a good decision was made. I’ll be following the investigati…

My, what a broad brush you have. With of course no ‘time’ to back it up with facts.

Some facts:

Hull loss rates by region of operator per million departures (Jet / Turboprop) 2012-2016: [0]

- 2.21 / 7.38 Africa

- 1.17 / 20.59 CIS

- 0.74 / 3.42 Middle East / North Africa

- 0.53 / 1.55 Latin America / Caribbean

- 0.48 / 1.45 Asia Pacific

- 0.22 / 0.98 North America

- 0.14 / 0.73 Europe

- 0.00 / 8.73 North Asia

India falls below Myanmar, Nepal, Pakistan in air safety audit[1]

>The audit — ICAO Universal Safety Oversight Audit Programme — seeks to identify if countries have effectively and consistently implemented the critical elements of a safety-oversight system.

>India is one of the 15 countries that are below the minimum target rates.

[0] https://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/2018-02-22-01.aspx

[1] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation...

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#109

It wouldn't be the first time a crew errs in calculating their takeoff performance and uses too low a thrust or flap setting. Everyone on that plane is lucky to be alive, as others have died after similar takeoffs.

Too low a thrust? I thought that on airliners pilots input runway length, altitude and wind strength and direction, and the computer optimized the thrust accordingly?

Yes, the autothrottle commands the thrust as calculated for a Flex take-off. But it's only correct if the input parameters are correct. There was a Sunwing 737 which bent the runway lights at Belfast in 2017 because the pilots had entered the wrong temperature variable:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/temperature-error...

Re: Air India Express 737 Hits ILS, Damages Wall on Departure, Flies for 4 Hours

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, there have been Cessna deaths caused the same way. It's my least favorite failure mode to think about, since there's no obvious way to correct. In a Cessna, best you can do is release the yoke and tiptoe on to the rudders, but professional instructors have still died when this happens to them, since low altitude errors are often not correctable by the time you've lost too much altitude. Usually there ought to be…

In contrast, I can't say I've ever heard of seats in cars having this problem. Is it because plane seats are highly optimised for weight?

Pulling back on a car’s steering wheel doesn’t do anything. Also, cars have a very low stall speed.
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