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Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

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Re: Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

#101

Post by rconti »

bischofs wrote: post #10
rconti wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems fair to compare an automaker to another automaker. Declining sales among your competitors is a strong indicator of a difficult environment to sell into. Unless you're saying the cited sales are sedans only, in which case I get your point.

Not really fair, I can walk into a dealer and buy any car from one of those other brands. The Tesla numbers are 1-2 years of built up demand being built/delivered in one quarter. These numbers will definitely not continue.

You're not replying to the substance of my reply. I was saying that analyzing Tesla's sales in comparison to other automakers' declining sales is perfectly fair.

You're right to point out that Tesla has years of pent up sales, but it is still true that, whatever their sales are, they are more impressive in a market where other automakers are declining than they would be in a market of overall double-digit auto sales growth.

Re: Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

#102

Post by zaroth »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #95
iamleppert wrote: post #65

Tesla has a product that people want, and, importantly appeals to the new generation of prospective car owners in a way the other auto manufactures can't come close to even hoping. Youth haven't really been interested in cars in the same way and with the same level of excitement they once were for awhile now until Tesla came along. To put simply, they will eventually figure out their manufacturing and economies of sc…

We'll see. It seems that this debate has quickly polarized. The Model 3 is still wildly expensive. The ones being shipped now aren't affordable cars. 35k really isn't affordable for a car either. It's firmly in the luxury market until 35k models ship. Even then, it doesn't make financial sense to buy a Tesla over another car without government incentives. Charge time is a major issue and will be critical for Tesla to…

The TCO of a Model 3 at a MSRP of $35k is comparable to what... a ICE car at $25k? Maybe less. That's assuming all the cash incentives are long gone at that point, and gas stays above $3.00. It's a bit uncharitable to call that "wildly expensive" unless your context is a new grad buying their first ever used car.

> Durability and reliability for high miles remains to be seen. Batteries are expensive to replace.

Actually, we have very good data for longevity of the Model S batteries, and it looks beyond great. [1] Reliability of drive train and suspension remains to be seen for the 3 since it's so new, but the expectation is that maintenance is significantly cheaper for an electric vehicle due to so much reduced complexity.

> ...I highly doubt there is much more to be gained from manufacturing improvements...

Says almost everyone ever about whatever the current state of the technology is they are currently discussing? Materials science is constantly improving, and it would be shocking to me if they are making the 3 basically the same way 20 years from now as they do today.

> Everything with Tesla hinges on that battery...

And hasn't Tesla proven that they are able to consistently drive battery costs down and density and reliability up? Tesla has hinted at $100/kWh costs by the end of 2018. They are at forefront of battery production, and have consistently pushed the envelope since the 900lb, 53kWh battery in the Roadster which cost something like $600/kWh to produce. [2]

[1] - https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-dat...

[2] - https://www.tesla.com/blog/bit-about-batteries

Re: Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

#103

Post by SEJeff »

threeseed wrote: post #100
SEJeff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has a head start on serious automotive EV technology, and as a result, has: https://patents.google.com/?assignee=Tesla+Inc No matter what happens, anyone wanting to build serious EVs will at some point be licensing patents, especially the stuff they do which really is cutting edge around their battery packs.

Head start is no guarantee of success. History is full of examples of this to be the case. Has Apple ever had a head start on any industry ?

My point is that they have a lot of patents around this tech in actual real EVs. Other competitors would have to license it from Tesla.

Re: Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

#104

Post by lttlrck »

SEJeff wrote: post #103
threeseed wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Head start is no guarantee of success. History is full of examples of this to be the case. Has Apple ever had a head start on any industry ?

My point is that they have a lot of patents around this tech in actual real EVs. Other competitors would have to license it from Tesla.

Has Tesla reneged on the "open patents"?

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

Re: Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

#105

Post by sylentmode »

beamatronic wrote: post #56
jackhack wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And just for completeness, Porsche "only" sold 55,000 cars in 2017. Tesla shipped 30%+ more automobiles in one quarter, yet there is debate about whether Tesla is a viable company and no-one is predicting the imminent demise of that tiny car company, Porsche. Bias + old thinking dies hard, it seems.

I feel like Porsche has much room to grow. Tesla has made a car that is both sensible and sexy. In the past you had to choose. Anyone in the market for a Tesla might also consider an electric or electrified Porsche. Like a plug-in hybrid Macan.

I for one never considered buying a Porsche. Not a fan of the style. Tesla is another story

Re: Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

#106

Post by SEJeff »

lttlrck wrote: post #104
SEJeff wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that they have a lot of patents around this tech in actual real EVs. Other competitors would have to license it from Tesla.

Has Tesla reneged on the "open patents"? https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

    Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.
Define: Good Faith

Re: Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

#107

Post by chrisdhoover »

acct1771 wrote: post #93
kaicianflone wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never buy from the VW group again. It's almost like people have forgotten about the whole TDI scandal. They literally lied to the world about dirty diesel. Not to mention the new class action lawsuit for both VW and Audi TSI models where they put bad engine parts into new cars. After the TDI emissions scandal I would never support this corrupt company. Porsche, VW, or Audi - they're all corrupt and in my opini…

If you were going to draw the morality line, you'd think WWII era things would have been plenty for you on VW.

And Porsche built prototype tanks, other German companies did bad stuff. Lets not forget IBM.

Life sucks, WWII sucked, all of my family, women and men served, but I love Porsches and I will continue to own them.

Re: Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

#108

Post by greglindahl »

mikestew wrote: post #91
joeyramone wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine you never took a long road trip (say 600+ miles) with your Leaf. Then you'll understand the value of a fast charging network like Tesla has.

You would imagine correctly. Then you'll understand the value of a fast charging network like Tesla has. I understand the value just fine. And for me, it's not very high; certainly not high enough to pay more than double for the car (had Model S's even existed when the Leaf was purchased).

So, basically, you're saying that the supercharger network has no value for anyone because you own a Leaf?

No wonder Tesla-related threads on HN are such high value.

Next up: guy complaining that electric cars will never succeed because he lives in an apartment and can't currently charge at home.

Re: Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

#109

Post by hakfoo »

dpark wrote: post #98
kaicianflone wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never buy from the VW group again. It's almost like people have forgotten about the whole TDI scandal. They literally lied to the world about dirty diesel. Not to mention the new class action lawsuit for both VW and Audi TSI models where they put bad engine parts into new cars. After the TDI emissions scandal I would never support this corrupt company. Porsche, VW, or Audi - they're all corrupt and in my opini…

> if your car's engine fails after 100,000 miles they are not paying for anything And exactly what car companies will pay for engine if it fails after 100K miles? Come on, 100K miles and you want to complain about reliability? > which has personally affected me. And here you've clearly announced that your condemnation of VW has nothing to do with morals or ethics and everything to do with your personal inconvenience.…

> And exactly what car companies will pay for engine if it fails after 100K miles?

Hyundai/Kia will, at least up to 100k. I think Suzuki tried to promise a 10/120 warranty for a little while before they went out of the US.

Re: Tesla delivered 83,500 vehicles in the third quarter, more than expected

#110

Post by dragonwriter »

dpark wrote: post #98
kaicianflone wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never buy from the VW group again. It's almost like people have forgotten about the whole TDI scandal. They literally lied to the world about dirty diesel. Not to mention the new class action lawsuit for both VW and Audi TSI models where they put bad engine parts into new cars. After the TDI emissions scandal I would never support this corrupt company. Porsche, VW, or Audi - they're all corrupt and in my opini…

> if your car's engine fails after 100,000 miles they are not paying for anything And exactly what car companies will pay for engine if it fails after 100K miles? Come on, 100K miles and you want to complain about reliability? > which has personally affected me. And here you've clearly announced that your condemnation of VW has nothing to do with morals or ethics and everything to do with your personal inconvenience.…

> And exactly what car companies will pay for engine if it fails after 100K miles?

Chrysler (incl. Jeep and Dodge) has a standard lifetime powertrain warranty.

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