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Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

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101–110 of 134 posts

Re: Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

#101

I wonder how the business that I conduct with my ISP is "interstate commerce." The wire connecting my house to my ISP begins and ends in my state. As I understand things, it's the speed of data running up and down that wire that net neutrality seeks to protect.

Wickard v. Filburn It is considered interstate commerce to grow wheat on one's own farm to feed one's own animals under the theory that by doing so, he removed himself from the interstate wheat market (where he would otherwise have bought his wheat). Since the internet plays a major role in interstate markets, one could easily extend this arguement to say that even local internet connections are interstate commerce.…

So it's interstate because it doesn't participate in interstate commerce?

Do tautologic conclusions make legitimate precedents? Dang...

Re: Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Republicans hate all blue States. Due to America's peculiar Electoral College system one man is not one vote. This keeps California severely disenfranchised in American politics. Californians are second class citizens. And when they try to exercise their state rights the Republicans are quick to stop them.

California should secede. It has enough people to form its own government representative of the population.

That's pretty much the nuclear option. Everyone, both the rest of the Union and the State of California, would all suffer if they did that.

Re: Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

#103
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On both sides, yes. I'd say the Democrats are more dishonest. GOP claims to be the pro-business party, so no surprise when they act that way. Democrats take the corporate money, pay lip service to the left, and act pro-business as well. Look at Obamacare - we didn't get single payer, we got government subsidies for insurance companies.

Obamacare was a compromise precisely because the Democrats had to make it palatable to Republicans. If it was upto Democrats, they would have passed Single Payer.

Obama was under the illusion that he could reach across the aisle and work with the Republicans, and tried very hard to do something that both sides could support. I think he didn't realize yet that making sure your side has wins, and the other side has losses, is how the game is played now at that level.

So after all that, he got no Republican votes. Even thought the plan was, at it's base, a conservative plan. He was naive.

Re: Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

#104
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obamacare was a compromise precisely because the Democrats had to make it palatable to Republicans. If it was upto Democrats, they would have passed Single Payer.

Obama was under the illusion that he could reach across the aisle and work with the Republicans, and tried very hard to do something that both sides could support. I think he didn't realize yet that making sure your side has wins, and the other side has losses, is how the game is played now at that level. So after all that, he got no Republican votes. Even thought the plan was, at it's base, a conservative plan. He w…

Which is really what infuriates me to no end. I'm not saying Obama was perfect, but he was engaging in good-faith dealmaking, hoping to get everyone on board. But the Republicans weren't. And now, everyone seems to think that Mitch McConnell is a super effective Senate leader. But at what cost? Republicans seem to be plagued by a lot of short term thinking... Precisely what the Senate, with its long tenure, was supposed to avoid.

Re: Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

#105
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama was under the illusion that he could reach across the aisle and work with the Republicans, and tried very hard to do something that both sides could support. I think he didn't realize yet that making sure your side has wins, and the other side has losses, is how the game is played now at that level. So after all that, he got no Republican votes. Even thought the plan was, at it's base, a conservative plan. He w…

Which is really what infuriates me to no end. I'm not saying Obama was perfect, but he was engaging in good-faith dealmaking, hoping to get everyone on board. But the Republicans weren't. And now, everyone seems to think that Mitch McConnell is a super effective Senate leader. But at what cost? Republicans seem to be plagued by a lot of short term thinking... Precisely what the Senate, with its long tenure, was suppo…

They believe they are engaged in long term thinking - seize power so completely, popular support and laws cease to matter. Then do to the country what has been done to Toys R Us. And Democrats are willing to let them do it because they think it's a game.

Re: Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

#106
post #78
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That branch of the Republican party is extinct though.

Immigration changed California to solidly blue more than anything else.

Immigration is part if it, and the other part is the Republican party's policies got too extreme for a lot of Californians. California Republicans were more like Schwarzenegger, who later in his term simply abandoned the Republican party. (I think he called Republican operators, crazy and unable to get anything done)

Re: Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

#107
post #88
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration changed California to solidly blue more than anything else.

You could also argue that it was Republican's refusal to address the needs of immigrants that lost them California. But only American citizens can vote. And I can't seem to find any data on the increase of the California population from naturalized citizens.

After Prop 187 about a million Mexican resident aliens got their citizenship. That also coincided with a hard turn towards fascism by the Republican party under Gingrich.

Re: Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wickard v. Filburn It is considered interstate commerce to grow wheat on one's own farm to feed one's own animals under the theory that by doing so, he removed himself from the interstate wheat market (where he would otherwise have bought his wheat). Since the internet plays a major role in interstate markets, one could easily extend this arguement to say that even local internet connections are interstate commerce.…

Is there a case that considers how this applies to preemption? For example, could the federal government preempt the states from having public schools, public roads or a police force under the commerce clause because they impact the interstate market for private schools, private roads and private security? It seems like maybe they should only be able to preempt when the thing is actually interstate commerce and not j…

It's hyperbole to say everything effects interstate commerce as a legal matter. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez, where the court struck down the Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990.

On the other hand, that's a really low bar for the Federal government to meet. Especially in light of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich, where the court upheld Federal criminal prohibition of homegrown marijuana for personal use, and where everybody stipulated (IIRC) that her marijuana wouldn't enter the stream of commerce. Note that both Kennedy and Scalia upheld Federal powers here, which is why their vehement opposition to Obamacare's individual mandate was so hypocritical.

Re: Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

#109
post #87
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is so much emphasis placed on precedent in the US justice system and I don't understand why. With that line of argument I could also argue anything you do or say within the confines of your house is also public's business because it affects the public ultimately one way or another.

Because the US justice system inherits from English common law. The moral motivation is that it is unfair to judge equivalent cases differently. This contrasts with civil law systems, used predominantly throughout mainland Europe / ex-Roman empire, which have the moral motivation that explicit codification of the law is the best way to be fair.

Civil Law systems have a doctrine similar to stare decisis with the same logic--fairness in outcomes. It just operates differently because of different views about the structure of government.

I think the main reason that Civil Law systems have voiced opposition to judge-made law is because since their advent (French Revolution onward) Continental systems have emphasized democratic control and thus the supremacy of the legislature, whereas Anglo-American law historically emphasized (or reflected) competing power structures. An early French constitution made it criminal for a judge to "invent" a rule to settle a case; if the law was ambiguous the judge was supposed to refer the case to the legislature. But guess how many times a court declared a law ambiguous and referred it to the legislature? (Point being, Civil Law systems noisily refuted the legitimacy of judge-made law, but the reality was different.)

It's notable that Parliamentary Supremacy didn't completely solidify in Britain until the late 1700s. American law didn't inherit such a notion of unlimited legislative authority. The concept of Substantive Due Process emerges from this environment, as does the far less controversial Judicial Review (from Marbury v Madison).

Also, FWIW, there's a common misconception (even among lawyers) that the Civil Law is somehow more closely related to Roman Law than the Common Law. That's not really true. Roman Law actually had judge-made law and something like stare decisis, though the technical details were quite different. Emperor Justinian attempted to impose reforms, but these were widely opposed and occurred at the tail end of the Roman Empire. In as much as the Civil Law was based on interpretations of the Justinian Code, that doesn't mean it was reflective of actual Roman Law. And in any event, most of the major distinctions between the Civil Law and Common Law emerged long after misinterpretations of Roman Law had permeated everybody's legal thinking.

Re: Justice Department Sues to Stop California Net Neutrality Law

#110
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is really what infuriates me to no end. I'm not saying Obama was perfect, but he was engaging in good-faith dealmaking, hoping to get everyone on board. But the Republicans weren't. And now, everyone seems to think that Mitch McConnell is a super effective Senate leader. But at what cost? Republicans seem to be plagued by a lot of short term thinking... Precisely what the Senate, with its long tenure, was suppo…

They believe they are engaged in long term thinking - seize power so completely, popular support and laws cease to matter. Then do to the country what has been done to Toys R Us. And Democrats are willing to let them do it because they think it's a game.

This sounds true but is also really depressing. Do you think the popular wave of democrats seeking office this election season will make any difference? I like the energy in the democratic base, but I trust process over people. I fear after the election, people will again lose interest and we'll fall right back where we started.
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