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My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

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Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#101

Post by marmaduke »

noir_lord wrote: post #68
themoat wrote: post #2

I know the author wised up and moved on, but I would rather work construction for the rest of my life than be a programmer and live like this. I worked for a startup for a couple of years that really got it right. The CTO really wanted a certain lead developer as his first hire (they had previously worked together) and the lead dev said (paraphrased, of course) "Nope. Not interested in working more than 40 hours per…

If you want the 40 hours and treat like a human not a code producing robot I found the best way is to work as a techie for a none-tech company. I handle the internal ERP and related software (android terminals, sandblast machines etc) I get to work on varied problems in multiple languages where my contribution is immediately visible and then go home at 5pm. It's glorious, I'll give up programming as a career rather t…

This is a good point. Not even tech but being one of few fluent programmers is a good position.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#102

Post by bartread »

physcab wrote: post #22

This really is only one small segment of the programming population. I really hate superficial shit like this that paints tech workers in a bad light bc most have ordinary jobs and live ordinary lives and aren’t social recluses. I work typical 9-5, wife and kids. We go grocery shopping and make dinner every night together. We live very modestly and we have lots of non-tech friends and family. It’s literaly nothing sp…

> This really is only one small segment of the programming population. I really hate superficial shit like this that paints tech workers in a bad light bc most have ordinary jobs and live ordinary lives and aren’t social recluses.

I don't think anyone here seriously thinks this is the norm for working in tech, although I can entirely understand that the author might have a warped perspective on it as a result of his experience.

With that said, this "superficial shit" does happen, particularly in startup culture. And even if this is out on the margins of the experience, one can imagine milder versions that are still a very long way from ideal for a lot of people. For example, I find the thought of living with people I also work with utterly horrifying even if we were living in a decent house with our own rooms, a good amount of space, and what have you. I've worked with people over the years who have house-shared with others at the same company and I've never understood how they could do it. That's no disrespect to my team, or to anyone one I've worked with previously: for the most part they've been great people, but you just HAVE to unplug from it and get some social interaction from outside of your professional milieu[1].

[1] Also, I did house sharing for 10 years and, even 12 years later, I am absolutely over it. Perhaps even more-so with the passage of time.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#103

Post by badpun »

jen729w wrote: post #61
enraged_camel wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>That guy in the closet was probably stashing way North of $60k annually, not counting equity. Do this for 7-10 years and you can retire silver else and are probably in your early 30s. Retire with $750k (assuming stock market gains over that 10 years)? Man, I don’t know many people who can do that, at least not in the US. Don’t get me wrong, it gets you out of the “work or starve” level, but it’s also not exactly “I…

...and now you're a 30-year-old rich guy with no mates who knew nothing of his 20s. No thanks.

Well, if you hate paid work with passion (as many people do), gaining freedom and starting your life at 30 still sounds pretty good.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#104

Post by Havoc »

sokoloff wrote: post #87
sleepychu wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you lined this up already? Do you have examples of places paying London salaries to remote employees?

London salaries are surprisingly low to this US-based employer with employees in a handful of cities around the world. I was expecting “NYC salaries” and instead found more like “Atlanta salaries” which I can’t figure out how the economics works for London-based employees. Given that, lots of US employers with remote work available will be able to hit London salary level I think.

>which I can’t figure out how the economics works for London-based employees.

They don't. Much like SF it appeals to people though so they flock to it anyway

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#105

Post by badpun »

sokoloff wrote: post #87
sleepychu wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you lined this up already? Do you have examples of places paying London salaries to remote employees?

London salaries are surprisingly low to this US-based employer with employees in a handful of cities around the world. I was expecting “NYC salaries” and instead found more like “Atlanta salaries” which I can’t figure out how the economics works for London-based employees. Given that, lots of US employers with remote work available will be able to hit London salary level I think.

> I can’t figure out how the economics works for London-based employees.

Well, they don't have the privilege of being able to work in the US, so basically it is what it is.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#106

Post by the_rosentotter »

l33tbro wrote: post #85

Probably worth mentioning that this article is from 2016, but I'm sure not much has changed. In fact, this article may have been inspired by a much longer piece from the previous year (1) which focuses on the kinds of dropout teens that Peter Thiel would later come to encourage to head west. Fascinating read. (1) https://stories.californiasunday.com/2015-06-07/real-teenage...

> "Hackathons are technological Woodstock"

This sentence embodies what repulses me about current Silicon Valley culture: The self-satisfied claim to San Francisco 60's heritage, only, you know, with peace and love being replaced by greed and egotism.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#107

Post by Joe-Z »

badpun wrote: post #103
jen729w wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and now you're a 30-year-old rich guy with no mates who knew nothing of his 20s. No thanks.

Well, if you hate paid work with passion (as many people do), gaining freedom and starting your life at 30 still sounds pretty good.

I don't think living like that is a conscious decision though. It's probably more likely for someone like the closet-guy that he's an outsider anyway and at some point along the way just thought to himself "fuck it, I might just make the most out of it now" and hope for better times in the future.

When it comes to living life I'd rather go with 'A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.' And I say this as someone who's worked hard in their 20s to let go of nerdy and awkward behaviour to be able to more fully enjoy my life NOW.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#108

Post by mason55 »

sleepychu wrote: post #79
a_imho wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is so hard about saying no to overtime? Just turn off the computer and go home.

Social pressure is a pretty big motivator for most people. I find that customers are the big driver, if they're willing to wait (accept delays, don't bring the deadline in when it's been agreed) then I really feel no pressure at all to work overtime. When the customer is screaming down the phone at your grand-boss that you've failed to deliver and they have very little context for that and ask you if you can work ext…

The common thread is your boss, not your customer. A good boss is worth everything.

A good boss would push back on unreasonable customer demands and spend time figuring out what went wrong. A good boss will help prevent it from going wrong the next time. A good boss will help you figure out what needs to be done right now and what can be scheduled so it’s not just a constant “P1 emergency”

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#109

Post by golergka »

BigJono wrote: post #76
adrianN wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost all programmers I know are not passionate about their jobs. It's a job, not their life. Yet they write good code and deliver on schedule. Outside of the HN filter bubble this is perfectly normal. Insinuating that people intentionally write bad code for monetary reasons is rude imho. It's like this for the vast majority of jobs, inside and outside of tech. People do them because they have to pay their bills and…

I don't think I've met anyone that's passionate about their job. About programming? Sure! But it's really, really difficult to be passionate about a specific job unless it's your own company.

Hi, I'm one of those people. Been in game development 11 years, now a lead developer for a project that I would buy and play as a gamer, doing exactly what I was dreaming of doing when I was around 7 years old. It's very grueling emotionally and takes a great toll, but I have no other big goals in life right now other than to do this right.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#110

Post by ghaff »

jiveturkey wrote: post #50

are you kidding me? it’s written as if it took place over years and decades. “the longer i stayed in the hostel, the more my life slipped away”. it was weeks. i wouldn’t be surprised if the guy living in the closet was the owner of the unit. (or lessee) the author thinks he’s going to graduate from boot camp and “make it”? please. this article and the fact of its (self) publication tells us a lot about the author, an…

While one suspects that many of these coding bootcamp stories don't have happy endings, I'm not sure there's anything particularly extraordinary about enduring far less than ideal living conditions for some closed-ended period. Out of school I spent a fair bit of time in shipyards and on offshore drilling rigs which had minimal dorm-style accommodations. Which was fine at the time but certainly not something I would have wanted to do indefinitely.
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