101–110 of 140 posts
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It is, but whales are pretty close to the top of that slope. If you elected not to kill any animals due to probable sentience, the short list would probably look like dolphins, elephants, and whales.
Wouldn't numerous apes that operate in groups that seem like simple societies, some of which have been seen passing down traditions like very simple tool use, make the list?
My head spins about how schizophrenic the vast majority of the population is when it comes to meat consumption and love of animals. People shed tears over pets, yet pay others to abuse animals (factory farming) just to enjoy a meal that's equivalently tasty to easily available options. People will condemn the Japanese for eating whales or dolphins, the Chinese for eating dogs, meanwhile they themselves cause the suff…
I don't think you know what schizophrenia is, and you could try to make your same argument without that wrong analogy.
Let's see: a breakdown between thought, emotion and behavior (claim to "love animals" and then pay people to torture them, check), ... fantasy and delusion (refusing to acknowledge the horrendous conditions on factory farms, check) ... a sense of mental fragmentation (love one, but kill the other, check).
It's not a far stretch.
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I don't quite understand what you mean by schizophrenic in with what you describe. Isn't it possible it isn't a unified issue? I grew up in a rural region and I've seen the production first hand both on medium-sized farms to single hunts. I have had pets I've loved and watched them die and it made me sad. I also have an issue with the mass whaling because we know of the extinction risks and the goal when eating an an…
Meaning most humans do not like their meat sources to be cute, or too smart. Ideal meat is dumb as a post, and ugly as sin.
They want their food to look good enough to know it's safe, but not cute enough to trigger nurturing instincts.
At least we know the ocean is not empty yet...
I have been browsing through Wikipedia articles on various types of whales recently, and I was pleasantly surprised how much some whale populations have recovered since most of the world stopped hunting them. The conservation status of humpback whales is LC ("Least concern"), gray whales, too. It's not all good, far from it, but it is nice to know that collectively, we manage to not mess up everything we touch every…
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We eat meat because it brings us pleasure. Nutrionally we can live without it [0]. So here are our options: 1) Eat real meat and derive pleasure from it, but at the cost of having to make animals suffer, having to kill them and getting food that's quite energy intensive and destructive to the environment and destructive to the people having to work in that industry (factory farming) 2) Hunt and kill animals yourself…
I find the end of (4) an argument from other leftists who are vegan really really suspect. It's blaming consumers for the conditions the system created rather than blaming producers who are actually in power. It has a similar flavor to preaching the 3R's and buying expensive hybrid cars when heavy industries and refineries contribute the most to climate change. We aren't going to fix climate change (or any systemic p…
When I say planet I meant the animals, people and our environment. The UN had a study a few years ago [0] - urging to reduce meat consumption or reduce it heavily - due to the impact on the environment.
For me personally it's more about the animals themselves. They are sentient beings and how can we justify creating hell on Earth for them and killing them just so we can derive some short lived taste pleasure in our mouth. Meat tastes great, but the cost is too high and it's irresponsible to continue feeding this pleasure (when we have so many better alternatives) after we've got all the evidence that it's destructive on so many levels.
> [...] rather than blaming producers who are actually in power
Our demand for animal flesh and animal products is causing this, so the consumer is in power. Our meat consumption is cultural, we've been growing up with it. How come for example we don't explain to our kids at a young age that the tasty bacon comes from Pepper the pig's sister and friends? How come we don't want to show them the realities of meat production... because we know it's literally a horror show.
Watch this kid realising herself what's on her plate. Don't tell me it's not heart breaking to watch this? [1] Kudos to the dad for not forcing her to continue to eat meat.
> [...] who might be influenced by an idea especially when it is at odds with one's material context.
I'm not quite following, can you clarify?
> I find the end of (4) an argument from other leftists who are vegan really really suspect.
I don't really follow this either - what is suspect and what's your definition of leftist? Here is the definition of veganism [2] - it's bascially trying to end cruelty towards other sentient beings - why would one not support this view?
[0] http://www.unep.fr/shared/publications/pdf/dtix1262xpa-prior...
[1] Irish girl doesn't want animals to be chopped up anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsaGeAz3TSM
[2] Definition of Veganism
Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose.
edit: typos
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I don't think you know what schizophrenia is, and you could try to make your same argument without that wrong analogy.
I used the word as an adjective, so, relating to the general definition: a long-term mental disorder of a type involving a breakdown in the relation between thought, emotion, and behavior, leading to faulty perception, inappropriate actions and feelings, withdrawal from reality and personal relationships into fantasy and delusion, and a sense of mental fragmentation. Let's see: a breakdown between thought, emotion an…
People are in contact with other people who both love and eat animals (though usually not the same animals). Further, where I live (though probably in a lot of places), vegetarians are a minority, so most people are in contact with meat-eating people, including meat-eating pet owners, and see them as normal people. By comparing them to shizophrenics, you feed the viewpoint that mental problems are not real and that people can just work them out if they really want to, which is not helpful at all to those dealing with mental health problems.
It seems animal rights is a cause you care about, which I can understand. Mental health is a cause I care about, and I kindly suggest that you can continue to make your arguments without stretching the definition of any mental illness for that purpose.
EDIT: removed double 'seems' and accidental 'using'
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It is, but whales are pretty close to the top of that slope. If you elected not to kill any animals due to probable sentience, the short list would probably look like dolphins, elephants, and whales.
Wouldn't numerous apes that operate in groups that seem like simple societies, some of which have been seen passing down traditions like very simple tool use, make the list?
The descriptions of the treatment & suffering of orangutans in Borneo reads a lot like historical accounts of invading armies, replete with murder, cruelty, rape, and ripping babes from the arms of mothers.
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This is why I am incredibly excited about the impossible burger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebNeUihciDI It's the ultimate fake burger that has a 1/10 of the environment while being vegan. Now if there was an equivalent for chicken then it I would never eat another animal again!
I'm not at all interested in eating a "burger" made using the same techniques as junk food. It's just trash made in a way to trick your brain into thinking it's getting real nutrition by faking textures and flavors a la Doritos and other processed foods. No thanks. edit: I'd prefer a response to downvotes. Companies like Kraft, Frito-Lay, and Post have had "food scientists" whose main job have been tricking people in…
If the impossible burger and the likes is not for you, why not try other meat free recipes that are equally tasty, if it means not oppressing and inflicting pain and suffering on to other sentient beings?
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Try the beyondmeat chicken strips [0] And here's a hat tip for wanting to give up meat! [0] https://beyondmeat.com/products
Not really on-topic, but Beyond Meat makes a line of sausages including a bratwurst. This is important to me because I live in Wisconsin and haven't had a brat since becoming a vegetarian as nobody has made a vegetarian version since Boca cancelled theirs. Problem is, the damned things are so popular there's a huge shortage of them.
It's great to see people making better choices.
Ethan Brown is a great entrepreneur with a great mission.
Hope prices will come down and they can scale it, so more people can get their products.