Sit up straight (fix your posture) and stop gluing your wrists to the desk or wrist “support” and the layout doesn’t matter unless you’re going for typing records. There is no magical layout that can eliminate the tension you’re artificially creating by stretching your fingers into unnatural positions instead of just moving the entire hand. What healthy typing looks like (on a horrible keyboard no less): https://www.…
The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)
101–110 of 165 posts
Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nature doesn't require us to lean on armrests, desks or such - in fact there are almost no flat (or cushioned) surfaces on nature. Evolutionarily it would't make sense if the human body wasn't 'self-contained' - requiring no external tools to work comfortably. Your normal posture is to have the arms relaxed, or with a moderate amount of tension by keeping them lifted a reasonable amount of time, and variating the pos…
I would need more convincing than that. Nature doesn't have keyboards. Static postures are seen as something very bad in ergonomics, muscles are not adapted for that and wear is problematic. I've used supports for 20+ years without trouble. First day didn't suck either.
The bad part about wrist/arm rests is - very likely they compress various layers of your body, and they force you to contort your wrists to type (because you want to reach the keyboard while some other part of your body is stuck 'resting').
Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)
#103A keyboard layout for programmers, which allowed the use of special characters on the home row, perhaps by using a mixed corpus of source code rather than just novels, would be interesting to see. Recently, I ordered the Ultimate Hacker’s Keyboard because I think typing is quite important for a programmer, especially if you consider health as the author of this article does. I’m a little bit weary of not using QWERTY…
Unless you're programming in something very symbol-heavy, even by programming language standards, I suspect you'll find that it's hard for any symbol (other than space) to break into the top-10 non-space symbols; not impossible, but hard. I just did a 200KB perl file here, and the top 12 symbols are space, e, a, r, s, i, t, o, n, newline, l, and d. The first symbol, underscore, shows up in position 13, then it's u, then finally, $. Underscore is less than half as popular as the e. As you may guess, the naming convention of this code is mostly underscore_based. If this code was camelcase instead, you'd have to go down to position 14 with $.
The other problem is that languages will significant differ, so you can't really create "a programming layout". If you did nothing but type Perl, that list of symbols may suggest that perhaps $ should be on the u or i key or something valuable like that, but if you run the same process over your C# you're not going to see $ popping up nearly as high and now you've got a huge wasted key. Parentheses are in the 22nd and 23rd slot on this count, the only thing that I would be comfortable saying is really generic. (And then there's still Haskell, where they are used, but much, much less often.)
Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)
#104Sit up straight (fix your posture) and stop gluing your wrists to the desk or wrist “support” and the layout doesn’t matter unless you’re going for typing records. There is no magical layout that can eliminate the tension you’re artificially creating by stretching your fingers into unnatural positions instead of just moving the entire hand. What healthy typing looks like (on a horrible keyboard no less): https://www.…
No, thanks. I'd rather use my Kinesis Advantage than a horrible layout on a horrible flat keyboard.
But you could even type on this crap and be comfortable, because posture fixes the problem instead of masking it, like that Kinesis.
Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are some plenty of programmers who have dealt with problems for years: http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/emacs_hand_pain_celebrity.html I wouldn’t trivialize anything. Happens to designers too. This was on the front of HN a few years ago: http://www.looknohands.me
Acknowledging the fact that most people working with computers have horrible postures is not trivializing anything.
http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html
Claiming the entire problem is posture might not be the answer. We should definitely be looking more deeply into the problem and solutions.
The creator of Tcl/Tk has been dealing with RSI for over 20 years, for example:
Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, thanks. I'd rather use my Kinesis Advantage than a horrible layout on a horrible flat keyboard.
I’m typing this comment on an IBM Model F XT. The video is to show proper typing posture not an endorsement of chiclet style keyboards. But you could even type on this crap and be comfortable, because posture fixes the problem instead of masking it, like that Kinesis.
(Truth be told, my Kinesis Advantage sits on my standing desk at work where I spend most of my screen time and typing. I'm tying on my MacBook's chiclet.)
Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m typing this comment on an IBM Model F XT. The video is to show proper typing posture not an endorsement of chiclet style keyboards. But you could even type on this crap and be comfortable, because posture fixes the problem instead of masking it, like that Kinesis.
Oh, posture is good. But I'd rather have good posture on a keyboard with keys lined in direct columns etc. (Truth be told, my Kinesis Advantage sits on my standing desk at work where I spend most of my screen time and typing. I'm tying on my MacBook's chiclet.)
On Kinesis you minimize this issue but your hands are still mostly static and never relax.
Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)
#108> I didn’t like the way Dvorak was laid out especially for the weak fingers of the right hand. I am not sure if I only know this from playing piano and guitar, but it is surprisingly easy to strengthen those fingers. The exercise is very simple and all it takes is a couple minutes a day, it can be done anywhere (even better if you have a piano or guitar!): 1. Lay your fingers on a table, and curl them like you were a…
Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)
#109> Try typing “The” with the T capitalized on Colemak and hopefully you’ll see what I mean. Your right hand will move somewhat like this: you swing to the right to get the SHIFT key with your pinky, then you swing back to the left to get the letter ‘H’, and then you move to the right again to get the letter ‘E’. Why would you use the right shift here?? I shift with the left pinky in this situation and it feels fine. C…
I think there is a theory that one "should" use the _other_ hand for any modifiers. Presumably and primarily so that the letter key is always pressed using the same finger and position of the hand.
Re: The Workman Keyboard Layout Philosophy (2010)
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would need more convincing than that. Nature doesn't have keyboards. Static postures are seen as something very bad in ergonomics, muscles are not adapted for that and wear is problematic. I've used supports for 20+ years without trouble. First day didn't suck either.
Lifting your arms doesn't mean keeping them in a static position. They are lifted when you're typing; else they lean on your legs (much better than using some kind of cushion/surface, since your legs don't compress your wrists). Also, one can vary the arms' angle/etc during the day. The bad part about wrist/arm rests is - very likely they compress various layers of your body, and they force you to contort your wrists…
Yes, movement is important and one should take breaks but that is something one should do regardless of posture. I see how lifting hands can improve that but it has to be balanced against the negatives.
If moving a hand to use the mouse is seen as a big pain point I have a hard time to see how one would rest unused hands on the legs? Underneath the table?