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Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

nytimes.com

101–110 of 217 posts

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#101
Pharmaceutical companies keep lobbying for being able to give people opioids lightly, and keep giving doctors bonuses, to get people hooked until it's too late to go back.

It's really true that the world works backwards. That's hundred of times the deaths from terrorism, yet the US government is completely ignoring this trend.

If heroin is criminalized, so should be these practices, yet everyone is making money off of this: corporations, doctors, shareholders, politicians.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#102
post #94
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> 2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing Surely this is not the norm? My son had his wisdom teeth out a few years ago, they gave him about a day's worth of hydrocodone and told him to take Tylenol after that. And all the doctors my family has seen for the past couple of decades have been pretty conservative about prescribing anything narcotic for pain.

Here in the EU, the doctor didn't give me any strong opiod. They just pulled the tooth and sent me home. When the pain reached a score of 8 / 10 on my personal score card, I took one Tylenol and another 1/2 before bed that day and didn't take anything else the next day.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#103
post #41

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

My own preferred hypothesis is that this is the result of despair : https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/joblessne... Someone will no doubt reply that US unemployment is falling, and therefore so should the opiates crisis, but it's not a simple matter of economics and statistics, it's a question of what people believe about the world and their future in it. Someone who gets a bad, painful job with no ag…

> US unemployment is falling, and therefore so should the opiates crisis

For most people, once addicted, it's very difficult to stop. It's no longer about numbing your despair, it's a physical dependency with very unpleasant withdrawal symptoms.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#104
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very hypocritical for some politician to tell me what I can and what I can`t put into my body. Recently in UK they enacted a law that criminalize any substance that changes how you feel, but with the following remark "The ban is so wide-ranging that a long list of substances such as alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, food and medical products will have to be given special exemptions." When you thought that you reached…

If you expect society to share the burden of funding your healthcare, you should expect to share oversight of your habits.

> If you expect society to share the burden of funding your healthcare, you should expect to share oversight of your habits.

Sure, but play this against "The legislative environment created by the War On Drugs creates such overwhelming negative externalities, in our own country and beyond, that it costs much more in terms of both tax and lives."

(Actually I fundamentally disagree - health care is a common good, and society does not really get to have this oversight. If it did we'd see bans on extreme sports, for instance)

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#105
post #41

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

My own preferred hypothesis is that this is the result of despair : https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/joblessne... Someone will no doubt reply that US unemployment is falling, and therefore so should the opiates crisis, but it's not a simple matter of economics and statistics, it's a question of what people believe about the world and their future in it. Someone who gets a bad, painful job with no ag…

>My own preferred hypothesis is that this is the result of despair

I agree with you, I would also throw in nihilism and purposelessness, the general lack of vision for the future from government and elites.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#106

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

"Dreamland" is a pretty amazing summary of the responsibility.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U19DTS0

In short: pharma companies for misrepresenting an editorial in the 80s about addiction rates, medical industry calling pain the fifth vital sign, and enterprising drug dealers setting up Domino's like delivery services for heroin.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#107
post #55

The amount of responsibility laundering that's happening is staggering. Is it the fault of the doctors for prescribing strong painkillers or the responsibility of lobbyists for keeping the status quo as it is. Or is it the responsibility of patients to not seek strong opiates for the smallest aches? On whom falls the blame for this?

The doctors. Anyone who spends the better part of a decade studying medicine can't be ignorant about opioids and addiction, regardless of what the slimy Purdue representative tells them. The only excuse they have for the blatant over prescribing of opioids (2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing) is that if they don't do it, the patient will just go to another doctor. But how can you just…

> What the patient seeks is irrelevant. The only one who decides what prescriptions a patient should take is a doctor.

That kind of rubs me the wrong way, but I'm not sure why. I like having the option of overriding the doctor if I disagree.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#108
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2 months worth of oxy for getting wisdom teeth pulled kind of thing Surely this is not the norm? My son had his wisdom teeth out a few years ago, they gave him about a day's worth of hydrocodone and told him to take Tylenol after that. And all the doctors my family has seen for the past couple of decades have been pretty conservative about prescribing anything narcotic for pain.

Here in the EU, the doctor didn't give me any strong opiod. They just pulled the tooth and sent me home. When the pain reached a score of 8 / 10 on my personal score card, I took one Tylenol and another 1/2 before bed that day and didn't take anything else the next day.

> When the pain reached a score of 8 / 10 on my personal score card, I took one Tylenol

What's a 10/10 on your personal score card, out of interest? I hope you understand that your 8/10 may be akin to a 2/10 for someone else.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#109
post #33
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many say that big Pharma corporations have a large share of the responsibility because they began promoting strong pain killers heavily, starting in the 90s [1]. Now it has become part of American culture (doctors, patients, pharmacistse etc) to treat any pain with these pain killers. It’ll cost a lot and take a long time to reverse that [2] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622774/ [2] https://www.vo…

In the end of the day doctors are the only ones holding the pen to write prescriptions, no matter how you look at things.

At the end of the day the patients are the only ones taking the pills, no matter how you look at things.

It's personal responsibility first of all. I don't want to live in a world where I need prescription or permission to do anything that is potentially risky to my health. What happened to the idea that you are responsible for your actions? We already have too much prohibition and government picking and choosing what is and what isn't allowed in your life.

Re: Bleak New Estimates in Drug Epidemic: A Record 72,000 Overdose Deaths in 2017

#110
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My own preferred hypothesis is that this is the result of despair : https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/joblessne... Someone will no doubt reply that US unemployment is falling, and therefore so should the opiates crisis, but it's not a simple matter of economics and statistics, it's a question of what people believe about the world and their future in it. Someone who gets a bad, painful job with no ag…

Manufacturing jobs are booming in the US. The very people that you're implying are hopeless, that specific demographic, have access to blue collar jobs in a way they haven't in nearly a generation. The US hasn't seen this kind of sustained manufacturing job growth since the mid 1990s. The US has drug problems, and has for 50 years, that other first or second tier nations in worse structural condition never picked up.…

Paragraph by paragraph:

1. Manufacturing hasn't got back to 2008 levels, and even then it was terrible.

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES3000000001

2. Why do Americans feel the need to self-medicate?

3. I'm sure Spain has put a lot of money into drug statistics?

4. You can't compare GDP of countries to the effectiveness of their Social Safety net. It's not black, and white problem.

4. Might agree? Yes--living in America is very stressful.

5. Kinda agree. My county is the second most wealthy county in America. We are highly addicted, but seeing pricy doctors.

6.

7. Is the economy that much better? The long term unemployed rate is still staggering. Is the opioid crises worse, or just better reported? (Many doctors just cut off their pain patients when the shit hit the fan. I wonder how many former patients went to the street to procure drugs?)

8. You are comparing the Japanese culture to the American culture, in a few sentences?

9. Will not talk about about evidence in a rant? (And yes--this is a rant too.)

10. You got me on the suicide rate. I would move to Sweden if I had a do over. Then again, I had a ex, whom said the weather is beyond dreary.

I'm on the toilet literally, but when I look at most poor, and middle class Americans I see misery. When I step over the Homeless; I can't but notice the misery, and disappointment.

I feel that the jobs here are worse than twenty, thirty years ago.

Housing is beyond expensive.

Americans lack spirituality, which might explain the lack of hope?

And our Welfare system is an absolute joke for a Superpower. Oh yea, the medical system is baciaclly there to care for the wealthy.

Bupenorpine if you're really addicted.

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