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When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

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Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#101

Post by tibbon »

_8huj wrote: post #79
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #25

who thinks it's a good idea to host anything in the US in 2018. they should host both blackhat & defcon outside the US also to include infosec experts that are otherwise discriminated against. (anyone with a Muslim name or simply an non-US passport). Fuck that country and fuck their events.

I can understand your frustration and there are valid concerns. As much as I like Las Vegas there are very real reasons not to have events like this in the US.

If I recall, there was one set of Python-related conferences that rotated every other year in/out of the US for this reason. While some people would go anywhere, a lot of people really didn't want to go to the US.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#102

Post by alexbecker »

tibbon wrote: post #97
FlipperBucket wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fourth amendment absolutely applies to hotel rooms. Hotel Security aren't the federal government. The 4th amendment? C'mon.

Eh, and Feds aren't state/muni cops either; but both of the latter still have to follow the 4th (in theory). FWIW; at camping festivals, I know your tent also is a temporary residence and requires a warrant for search.

That's because the 14th Amendment extends the "due process" requirement to the states, and under the [Incorporation Doctrine](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/incorporation_doctrine) respecting the 4th Amendment has been considered part of "due process".

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#103

Post by rbritton »

tibbon wrote: post #98
Someone1234 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's astonishingly expensive. I bet you could get a local pizza place to deliver an 18" Pepperoni for half that, let alone the $10 fee.

Everything on the strip is jacked up beyond anything I've ever seen in Tokyo or NYC. Pizza delivery might work, but otherwise... literally everything on the strip is jacked. I can find $1 slice pizza in Manhattan. Less-good version in Vegas? $6.

Vegas has discovered that it doesn't really matter what they charge. People will pay it. Gone are the days where they subsidized food costs with gambling revenue -- I really wouldn't be surprised if the casino floor cocktailers disappeared in the near future.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#104

Post by fatbird »

dpeck wrote: post #84

Katie Moussouris ( https://twitter.com/k8em0 ) is, unsurprisingly, spot on with the problems from her experience. Being able to verify that people trying to get into your room are indeed hotel security is a perfectly valid request. Trusting an ID badge is always laughable, but even more so in an environment like Defcon. While the privacy concerns aren't invalid, the safety issue posed by this policy are much more con…

At a hotel I stayed at in Hinton, Alberta (pop. 15,000, which had a bad drug epidemic at the time), the laminated hotel security card on the bed specifically said that, at nighttime, if someone knocks on the door claiming to be from the hotel, first call the front desk to verify that a houseman had actually been sent. This is a solved problem.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#105

Post by secabeen »

tibbon wrote: post #98
Someone1234 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's astonishingly expensive. I bet you could get a local pizza place to deliver an 18" Pepperoni for half that, let alone the $10 fee.

Everything on the strip is jacked up beyond anything I've ever seen in Tokyo or NYC. Pizza delivery might work, but otherwise... literally everything on the strip is jacked. I can find $1 slice pizza in Manhattan. Less-good version in Vegas? $6.

Delivery food is a great way to save money, but they can't deliver to your hotel room. You have to meet them at the entrance to the hotel.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#106

Post by teddyh »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #47
throwawaymath wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the hell do people act like that at the conference? That sounds like children running amok, not a security conference.

Because it's defcon, not blackhat. Defcon is the Saturday before graduation at a frat house. Blackhat is a the 4th of July at a country club.

Could someone translate that from American to European for us non-US residents, please?

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#107

Post by ggggtez »

baby wrote: post #87
reaperducer wrote: post #71

All of the big resorts in Las Vegas are going through a period of change regarding security. It's been a very traumatic 10 months for that industry in that location. Caesars, and the other hotels, are trying to find a balance between the security needs of the guests and the security needs of the staff. It's going to take time to work everything out. Just a few weeks ago, the hotels reached an agreement the maids unio…

Exactly. You are in a country where guns are freely available. You have to live with this kind of things.

Part of guns being legal is not living with people deciding to search you for completely legal property.

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#108

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

teddyh wrote: post #106
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's defcon, not blackhat. Defcon is the Saturday before graduation at a frat house. Blackhat is a the 4th of July at a country club.

Could someone translate that from American to European for us non-US residents, please?

Frat houses[1] are known for having a lot of parties. This partying will crescendo around the university's graduation date. DEFCON is being compared to one of these peak parties.

Black Hat is a bit more subdued. It costs a lot more to attend Black Hat. Black Hat parties are more like casual social gatherings. I believe that in Europe, country clubs are more likely to be called gentlemen's clubs. In either case, it's usually the richer people attending.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_fraternity_and_...

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#109

Post by mieseratte »

jimnotgym wrote: post #10

I am not part of the DEFCON community, but every year I hear about warrantless searches, equipment seized art the border and hacker arrests. I wonder why anyone, not least security researchers, would take the risk of going there. Just so as you guys know, we have conference facilities in Europe...

I'm not a European, but every year I hear about folks being shot, run down, and arrested for a crass joke. Why would anyone take the risk of Europe?

Re: When Security Compromises Security – The Caesars/Defcon debacle

#110

Post by pas »

mieseratte wrote: post #109
jimnotgym wrote: post #10

I am not part of the DEFCON community, but every year I hear about warrantless searches, equipment seized art the border and hacker arrests. I wonder why anyone, not least security researchers, would take the risk of going there. Just so as you guys know, we have conference facilities in Europe...

I'm not a European, but every year I hear about folks being shot, run down, and arrested for a crass joke. Why would anyone take the risk of Europe?

> but every year I hear about folks being shot, run down, and arrested for a crass joke.

Care to clarify what do you mean by this?

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