How Globalization Has Broken the Chain of Responsibility • Hacker News Board

Re: How Globalization Has Broken the Chain of Responsibility

#101

Post by leereeves » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #98

leereeves wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This discussion is becoming too hostile for Hacker News. I'll make one more attempt to explain my point of view, then I'm out: Loosening restrictions on select people is not loosening restrictions on everyone. Vatican City, with their tightly controlled migration policy, is not the country with the most freedom of movement simply because they allow freedom of movement to carefully chosen people. In the Vatican, for e…

This line of argument is absurd. You cannot become more restrictive by becoming less restrictive.

Nationalism isn't standalone, it's tied to a particular nation.

Changing loyalty to a larger nation isn't the same as becoming less nationalistic.

Re: How Globalization Has Broken the Chain of Responsibility

#102

Post by TheCoelacanth » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 10:12 PM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #101

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of argument is absurd. You cannot become more restrictive by becoming less restrictive.

Nationalism isn't standalone, it's tied to a particular nation. Changing loyalty to a larger nation isn't the same as becoming less nationalistic.

The Schengen Area is not in any sense a nation. Look at the definition of the word nation: "a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory". The Schengen Area checks off people and territory but nothing else.

It doesn't even have a shared government to try to make it fit if you are trying to use "nation" as a synonym for "country". Most of the countries are part of the EU, but Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland are part of the Schengen Area but not the EU.

Re: How Globalization Has Broken the Chain of Responsibility

#103

Post by leereeves » Sat, Aug 11, 2018, 11:01 PM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #102

leereeves wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nationalism isn't standalone, it's tied to a particular nation. Changing loyalty to a larger nation isn't the same as becoming less nationalistic.

The Schengen Area is not in any sense a nation. Look at the definition of the word nation: "a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory". The Schengen Area checks off people and territory but nothing else. It doesn't even have a shared government to try to make it fit if you are trying to use "nation" as a synonym for "country". Mos…

> united by common descent, history, culture, or language

Are you saying Europeans don't have any descent, history, or culture in common?

Re: How Globalization Has Broken the Chain of Responsibility

#104

Post by TheCoelacanth » Sun, Aug 12, 2018, 2:09 AM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #103

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Schengen Area is not in any sense a nation. Look at the definition of the word nation: "a large aggregate of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory". The Schengen Area checks off people and territory but nothing else. It doesn't even have a shared government to try to make it fit if you are trying to use "nation" as a synonym for "country". Mos…

> united by common descent, history, culture, or language Are you saying Europeans don't have any descent, history, or culture in common?

Descent, mostly not. Culture, mostly not. History, yes, of constantly fighting each other for hundreds of years (which is the type of shared history that creates national separations, not the kind that unites nations).

There are some groups of countries that have some descent and culture in common like Portugal/Spain or Benelux or Scandinavia, but there is no pan-European culture. Portugal, Greece, Monaco, Latvia and Iceland have almost nothing in common.

Re: How Globalization Has Broken the Chain of Responsibility

#105

Post by leereeves » Mon, Aug 13, 2018, 8:35 PM UTC

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #104

leereeves wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> united by common descent, history, culture, or language Are you saying Europeans don't have any descent, history, or culture in common?

Descent, mostly not. Culture, mostly not. History, yes, of constantly fighting each other for hundreds of years (which is the type of shared history that creates national separations, not the kind that unites nations). There are some groups of countries that have some descent and culture in common like Portugal/Spain or Benelux or Scandinavia, but there is no pan-European culture. Portugal, Greece, Monaco, Latvia and…

Then why hasn't the Schengen area admitted north Africa or the middle east?

Spain is a lot closer to Morocco than to Norway, but Spain partnered with Norway rather than Morocco because they share the same descent (European) and culture (Christian).