What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#101

Post by jshevek » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:21 PM UTC

okmokmz wrote: post #19

I wonder why such a high percentage of females attached the chain the the front wheel in their drawings edit: a better way to phrase it would probably be: Of the drawings where the chain was attached to the front wheel, I wonder why such a large majority were done by females

I was wondering the same thing. It would be nice if he also asked for people's experience with riding bikes, and compared all three factors (gender, experience, chain attachment). I'm wondering if there is a relationship between experience with riding bikes and this non-standard design

Edit: And age. Did all of the front attachers cluster in a particular age range as well?

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#102

Post by jshevek » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:28 PM UTC

colanderman wrote: post #90

Similar: draw an ant, top-down view. Where DO the legs go?

Is this really a common misunderstanding? I thought everybody knew that ants have three body sections, and the legs attached to the middle. We learned this in elementary school. Putting legs on the head or the back section would create so many unnecessary complications.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#103

Post by jshevek » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:30 PM UTC

anonytrary wrote: post #64

I find it strange that no one drew the bike projected on a plane other than the plane containing the wheels. No one drew the bike head-on or at an angle.

I speculate that the author created an expectation of a "quick, simple, sketch". Even an artist might prefer that plane, if they are expected to draw quickly.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#104

Post by salty_biscuits » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:30 PM UTC

atourgates wrote: post #42

duderific wrote: post #18

If you scroll down, the designer has produced images that match some of the ideas from the sketches. They are beautiful and mesmerizing. At first I thought he had actually built out the physical bicycles from the sketches, but it turns out they are just computer renderings. Nonetheless it shows the power of "mistake" driven design, to generate novel ideas.

As odd at is - this[1] design has a couple elements that have been reproduced in the real world. While the exact 2wd system shown in the rendering would have some real issues, 2wd mountain bike systems do exist. They can rely on impressively strange chain routing[2], a system of gears and internal shafts[3], or just an electric hub[4] (which is admittedly, not really the same thing). As far as the one-sided frame goe…

2wd on a bicycle is just plain silly. Weight and friction are such huge disadvantages to overcome. Even on a mountain bike extra traction from the front seems like a very limited benefit. I think Yamaha and Ohlins made a hydraulic motorcycle 2wd prototype. There the loses and weight aren't such a big deal. My understanding was that the extra material you have to add to strengthen the suspension sort of negates any weight benefits for telescopic forks. On motorcycles a single sided swing arm has the same issues, but at least there is a practical benefit when you need to change a tyre quickly.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#105

Post by jshevek » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:31 PM UTC

gascan wrote: post #25

garrettgrimsley wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For any still not seeing it: The chain stay from the bottom bracket is missing. The rear wheel should be held by a triangular arrangement of the frame, but the side of the triangle that runs parallel to the ground isn’t there

Finding that particular omission just feels like visual trickery, rather than anything to do with knowing how a bike works. Like any number of puzzle books that include a "find the missing X!" and friends.

Yes, it took me a moment to identify the omission because the chain itself occupies nearly the same space

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#106

Post by kbutler » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #63

21 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A bicycle is an incredibly simple visual form I disagree, compared with most objects a human daily interacts with - doors, furniture, lifts, cars - a bicycle is one of the most complex visible forms. I'm talking about what can be seen from outside, since obviously a car is much more complex on the inside. Most of the stuff we deal with is composed of square/boxes and circle/tubes. Triangular shapes are quite rare i…

Clench your fist. Take a moment to notice the complexity of the geometry. Consider how you might reduce that shape to simple geometric forms. Consider how you might represent the three-dimensional form as a set of two-dimensional lines. Turn your hand around and look at it from a different angle. Open your fist and make an "OK" or a "peace" sign. Go to your refrigerator and take out a lettuce leaf or a piece of brocc…

If you want to draw a line-drawing of a hand vs a bicycle, the hand is much easier - four parallel fingers off a palm, with a thumb off at an angle.

The bicycle is much more complex geometrically - wheels in tandem, triangular frame, relationship with seat, handlebars, tire forks, sprockets and chain, pedals, brakes & brake handles if you're picky...

A photorealistic hand is hard to draw/render because of the complexity of the materials and curves, fine texture like hairs, freckles, pores, fingernails, etc., but you wouldn't expect or get those asking your 30 people to take two minutes and draw a hand.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#107

Post by romwell » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:39 PM UTC

dirtyaura wrote: post #69

atourgates wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As odd at is - this[1] design has a couple elements that have been reproduced in the real world. While the exact 2wd system shown in the rendering would have some real issues, 2wd mountain bike systems do exist. They can rely on impressively strange chain routing[2], a system of gears and internal shafts[3], or just an electric hub[4] (which is admittedly, not really the same thing). As far as the one-sided frame goe…

I didn’t know about 2WD bikes existed! I’d love to try out to experience how it feels to drive 2WD. The Lefty design also looks very interesting, do you have practical experience with it? What an amazing comment full of new eye-opening information for me, thanks

I've rode a design similar to Lefty on the Mobike bike-sharing program in Germany (Dusseldorf, but they are around in many cities).

The difference wasn't really noticeable (bike-share bikes are already hefty enough that this is a minor difference).

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#108

Post by dvh » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

pornel wrote: post #27

Reminds of of Character Amnesia[1] phenomenon, where people can forget how to write Chinese/Japanese characters, even though they know how to read them. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Character_amnesia

I know how to read Mississippi

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#109

Post by atourgates » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

salty_biscuits wrote: post #104

atourgates wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As odd at is - this[1] design has a couple elements that have been reproduced in the real world. While the exact 2wd system shown in the rendering would have some real issues, 2wd mountain bike systems do exist. They can rely on impressively strange chain routing[2], a system of gears and internal shafts[3], or just an electric hub[4] (which is admittedly, not really the same thing). As far as the one-sided frame goe…

2wd on a bicycle is just plain silly. Weight and friction are such huge disadvantages to overcome. Even on a mountain bike extra traction from the front seems like a very limited benefit. I think Yamaha and Ohlins made a hydraulic motorcycle 2wd prototype. There the loses and weight aren't such a big deal. My understanding was that the extra material you have to add to strengthen the suspension sort of negates any we…

I think you're right, though 2wd eBikes might be different.

Our local trail association currently uses a Rokon: https://www.rokon.com/ - for trail maintenance, and it's just about perfect for that application. I could imagine them replacing it with a 2WD eBike at some point.

Re: What happens when you ask people to draw a bike (2016)

#110

Post by gameswithgo » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

hermitdev wrote: post #23

okmokmz wrote: post #19

I wonder why such a high percentage of females attached the chain the the front wheel in their drawings edit: a better way to phrase it would probably be: Of the drawings where the chain was attached to the front wheel, I wonder why such a large majority were done by females

I was surprised at the number of drawings that connected the front & rear wheels directly. I'm sure those would be fun to ride... Also the number of bikes that were just structurally unsound, such as just the seat-stay attached to the rear wheel. Quite likely first bump you hit, things would not end well (if it even took that long). I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I did take a single class on statics in college, a…

real bikes exist with just a seat stay, and with just a chain stay, and they work fine.

of course the stays are beefed up in these cases.