As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume • Hacker News Board

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#101

Post by com2kid » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 4:38 PM UTC

daveFNbuck wrote: post #83

reaperducer wrote: post #73

I deal with this with one of the web sites I maintain. I think, as noted in the article, that it seems Google sometimes uses names from advertisements as if they are canonical. In my case, the city in question puts out a very specific, very legally defined map of each neighborhood, and has for more than a century. But real estate agents make up names for the neighborhoods, or fudge the boundaries to improve selling p…

What makes the maps that the city makes up better than the ones that the real estate agents make up? If people are using the latter to determine where to live, doesn't that define a neighborhood?

The maps made by the city have legal impact. They control everything from funding to allocation of community resources. For example, in my city each neighborhood has an official community association that is acts as a liaison to the city.

Improvement projects are also designated by neighborhood, long term planning and resource allocation is on a per-neighborhood basis.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#102

Post by teh_klev » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 4:45 PM UTC

monadgonad wrote: post #85

teh_klev wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The issue with maps has always existed. As an amusing aside, and whilst not wishing to introduce flammable politics into this discussion, there's a funny thing that goes on whenever the topic of the Scottish Independence debate arises in the media or on social media. It usually concerns the Scottish border between Scotland and England and usually heads along the lines of "rebuilding Hadrian's Wall" to keep us pesky…

> Little do they realise (or they do and are playing along with the usual lazy stereotypes and tropes about Scotland) Why is it either of those? I think you're willfully taking "rebuild Hadrian's Wall" to have an extremely literal meaning that isn't intended by anyone saying it. Clearly they mean "build a wall between Scotland and rUK", not "follow the exact line of a 2000-year-old wall".

Trust me, if you've followed the Scottish Independence debate at all, there really are people who should know better that do actually think this way. They really do think Hadrian's Wall is the Scottish border.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#103

Post by ben_jones » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 4:48 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #73

I deal with this with one of the web sites I maintain. I think, as noted in the article, that it seems Google sometimes uses names from advertisements as if they are canonical. In my case, the city in question puts out a very specific, very legally defined map of each neighborhood, and has for more than a century. But real estate agents make up names for the neighborhoods, or fudge the boundaries to improve selling p…

And this was how my definitely in the Tenderlion apartment showed up as SOMA in all searches.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#104

Post by toss1 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

paidleaf wrote: post #35

sonnyblarney wrote: post #3

Because of the power of mind share, Google has the power to control borders. The border between Israel and the West Bank is an odd one. 'Both sides' have their view of it. But if 7 Billion people on planet earth grow up seeing one version of the border, it's what they will come to believe as 'true' and effectively support - particularly those in modern nations that might have influence. China is aware of this and the…

> China is aware of this and they control any maps their citizens will ever see. Everyone is aware of it. Maps have always been political. Maps and borders are political creations. Why is it that whenever a controversial topic comes up, people always bring up china? Every HN thread that has a controversial topic, someone always sneaks in a reference to china? > "Of course all that ocean between Philippines and Vietna…

NO.

China is NOT merely acting like anyone else in regards to international territories.

China very aggressively uses every social, political and military means to change the maps in their favor and extend their political control. This ranges from building military bases by expanding islands in international waters and putting air bases on it and threatening others, to denying that they invaded Tibet, to getting foreigners fired for liking a tweet that might hint that Taiwan is independent.

The US regularly needs to put naval vessels & aircraft in harm's way to frequently reassert Freedom Of Navigation in international waters -- the potential harm is from China's false assertion that these are Chinese territorial waters. This needs to be done ONLY against China in this region -- no other players try to pull the same nonsense.

Please stop trying to act as if China is not an outlier in this regard. Their egregious and even bellicose behavior needs to be called out and halted before it gets more violent. This only serves to normalize and encourage China's egregious behavior.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#105

Post by syncsynchalt » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

nsxwolf wrote: post #56

What does it actually mean? Is it a play on "Tenderloin", because it's like another cut of meat, but to the east?

The article explains it was the name of a 19th-century grading project in the area.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#106

Post by daveFNbuck » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #94

daveFNbuck wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes the maps that the city makes up better than the ones that the real estate agents make up? If people are using the latter to determine where to live, doesn't that define a neighborhood?

What makes the maps that the city makes up better than the ones that the real estate agents make up? In this case, the city designations are important because each year the city divides a pot of money that goes to supplemental infrastructure improvements in each neighborhood. Because it's supplemental money, it is a fixed amount for each neighborhood. If a neighborhood's boundaries increase, then money available for…

That's a good reason for why the city shouldn't arbitrarily change its official definitions of neighborhood boundaries without also changing budget allocations.

Why shouldn't everyone else define neighborhoods however they feel is most useful to them?

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#107

Post by cbhl » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

Google's San Francisco office is in "East Cut". The idea of divorcing "Google" from "Locals" is utterly ridiculous in our neighbourhood. This is one of the few places I'd expect Maps to actually be up-to-date with changes on the ground.

San Francisco says it's a liberal city of immigrants, but unless you're born here and have lived here all your life somehow you're part of the evil "other" that is ruining the city and changing the names of neighborhoods.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#108

Post by raldi » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #73

I deal with this with one of the web sites I maintain. I think, as noted in the article, that it seems Google sometimes uses names from advertisements as if they are canonical. In my case, the city in question puts out a very specific, very legally defined map of each neighborhood, and has for more than a century. But real estate agents make up names for the neighborhoods, or fudge the boundaries to improve selling p…

San Francisco also puts out an official map, but like many other official maps, it lacks many of the neighborhoods people expect to find: Sunnyside, Japantown, the Tenderloin, Dogpatch, Hunters Point, Mission Bay, Hayes Valley, Miraloma, Cow Hollow... and so in order to give users what they want and expect, Google has to gather data from other sources.

http://sfplanninggis.org/NeighborhoodOrganizations/

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#109

Post by Retric » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

daveFNbuck wrote: post #106

reaperducer wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes the maps that the city makes up better than the ones that the real estate agents make up? In this case, the city designations are important because each year the city divides a pot of money that goes to supplemental infrastructure improvements in each neighborhood. Because it's supplemental money, it is a fixed amount for each neighborhood. If a neighborhood's boundaries increase, then money available for…

That's a good reason for why the city shouldn't arbitrarily change its official definitions of neighborhood boundaries without also changing budget allocations. Why shouldn't everyone else define neighborhoods however they feel is most useful to them?

Who else should make that decision?

Agents will arbitrarily change maps basted on what their current listing are and would happily change them daily. Longer term there is little point changing place names as changing demographics will eventually adjust the meaning of these names even if no lines move on a map.

Re: As Google Maps Renames Neighborhoods, Residents Fume

#110

Post by mjevans » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #91

huebnerob wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the article complains about names 'just being made up' but fails to provide any evidence of that actually happening. Instead, all the other odd names they call out actually originated somewhere in the community, albeit perhaps from esoteric sources. What's more, NYT seems to willfully ignore that place names change and evolve constantly through natural social processes just like these. That Google is indexing…

>Indeed, the article complains about names 'just being made up' Unlike all those other placenames like "South of Market" which were decreed by god when he created San Fransisco :P What they're really getting at is that it was made up by the wrong people. Like anything else that once happened organically among groups of people, you can now wrangle up an advertising budget and push it along. My neighborhood has a "real…

That's more an issue of how US society is presently structured.

Money (spent) IS speech.

Want to speak more or louder? Spend more money.

True, community efforts to agree socially on something also matter, but it takes much more social capital than it does cash capital to affect such changes.