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Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#101

Post by crtasm »

chmars wrote: post #91

Melatonin is usually not (freely) sold in Europe while it can be easily bought in the US like vitamin pills or cod liver oil. Is there a recommendable online option with international delivery? (I don't consider the usual 'online pharmacies' recommendable. Even when buying Melatonin in a store in the US, there's still the issue that Melatonin manufacturers and sellers mostly control themselves …)

I buy it from EBay UK, delivered to England (appears to be posted from England too).

It all disappeared for a while but there's sellers offering it again now.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#102

Post by Erwin »

chmars wrote: post #91

Melatonin is usually not (freely) sold in Europe while it can be easily bought in the US like vitamin pills or cod liver oil. Is there a recommendable online option with international delivery? (I don't consider the usual 'online pharmacies' recommendable. Even when buying Melatonin in a store in the US, there's still the issue that Melatonin manufacturers and sellers mostly control themselves …)

Biovea has all sorts of health supplements, including a wide variety of Melatonin (down to 1mg capsules or liquid form too).

They even have the more questionable supplements such as Phenibut.

They ship this to Denmark at least, though it's possible some products are not shippable to some countries if there are stricter local laws.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#104

Post by stealthmodeclan »

When I was working long hours at an startup. My sleep cycle got disturbed.

Here is what works for me:

1. Reduce room temperature to 25*C. Go to bed at 10:30pm

2. Automatically shutdown the airconditioner at 4:30am.

3. Jump out of bed at 5am without any alarm clock.

This habit continues in the month when no airconditioner is needed.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#105

Post by beagle3 »

ak39 wrote: post #90
beagle3 wrote: post #85

While melatonin helped me, the results were inconsistent. However, 10,000IU of vitamin D3 before 10am (see e.g. [0] for discussion and analysis that do NOT support my regime) seem to consistently give me a good reliable sleep schedule. I was definitely not as thorough as Gwern, nor comparing to placebo - but for decades I have tried tens of different sleep aids, most of them useless, some working for a couple of week…

Hi Beagle, Is this a daily dose of D3 of 10,000 IU? And for how long have you been taking it?

Daily dose, have been for ~6 years now, not religiously - when traveling for less than a week I usually don’t take any with me, and I deliberately take a couple of weeks off every year to see if it still makes any difference (after 2-4 weeks, it starts becoming harder to fall asleep again, after which I wait another week and restart).

50,000 daily for a month is toxic, though afaik 20,000 has no “period of time it becomes toxic”; however, D is fat Soluable, so I take breaks to make sure my body can get rid of any excess.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#106

Post by beagle3 »

canttestthis wrote: post #96
beagle3 wrote: post #85

While melatonin helped me, the results were inconsistent. However, 10,000IU of vitamin D3 before 10am (see e.g. [0] for discussion and analysis that do NOT support my regime) seem to consistently give me a good reliable sleep schedule. I was definitely not as thorough as Gwern, nor comparing to placebo - but for decades I have tried tens of different sleep aids, most of them useless, some working for a couple of week…

10,000 IU is the upper limit recommended by researchers, but afaik 4,000 is the more commonly accepted/advised number.

The recommended dose and limit are body weight dependent, age and light/uv exposure influenced.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#107

Post by methyl »

stealthmodeclan wrote: post #104

When I was working long hours at an startup. My sleep cycle got disturbed. Here is what works for me: 1. Reduce room temperature to 25*C. Go to bed at 10:30pm 2. Automatically shutdown the airconditioner at 4:30am. 3. Jump out of bed at 5am without any alarm clock. This habit continues in the month when no airconditioner is needed.

It seems you sleep 6 hours per day - way too little.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#108

Post by rofo1 »

skadamat wrote: post #8

Every single person here, if your serious about diving into the science of sleep, should read Matthew Walker's book: Why We Sleep: https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501... His interview on Joe Rogan is a good summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig He covers everything from why we sleep (obv), naps, melatonin, etc. I've just finished it and really enjoyed it.

That is an excellent book. However, it doesn't contain a lot of practical advice (other than the 12 points at the end of the book, which were released already by National Sleep Association)

Somewhat tangetial, check out "The Circadian Code" as well - a lot of more practical advice in this one. They actually disagree on couple of delicate points, so not sure how can one make up one's mind as to which one's correct (e.g. one thinks there are night owls , one thinks it's a myth; one thinks we need 7 hours of sleep, one thinks that less than 8+ hours of sleep is devastating).

But in general, the message is the same - sleep well, try to fit into your circadian rhythm because all organs have internal clocks and being in rhythm benefits them all; some of them are interconnected, some are dependent on SCN, etc

In particular, the clinical trials with TRE (Time-Restricted eating, as in putting all calories in 8-12 hour intervals daily) seem amazing. Not a single side-effect, and all health markers seem to be improving under it.

One important study on mice concluded that mice that ate their high-fat, high-sugar food in 8 hour intervals (lets say, 8AM -> 4PM) compared to the control group of regular mice that had high-fat, high-sugar food all the time, ate more or less the same amount of calories daily, but the TRE-group had no increase of blood sugar or body fat.

Seems too good to be true, but apparently the study has been replicated..

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#109

Post by andy_ppp »

jwilliams wrote: post #100

I regularly take long haul flights (12+ hours) and take Melatoin for Jet Lag. I'll take twice. With the flights I take this usually works out to before sleeping on the plane (which ideally is the same/close to bed-time at the destination). And then the first night at the destination. In combination with other tricks -- I've found it really effective.

What are the other tricks, I’ve always found jet lag horrendous.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#110

Post by rofo1 »

drakonka wrote: post #87
skadamat wrote: post #8

Every single person here, if your serious about diving into the science of sleep, should read Matthew Walker's book: Why We Sleep: https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-Unlocking-Dreams/dp/1501... His interview on Joe Rogan is a good summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwaWilO_Pig He covers everything from why we sleep (obv), naps, melatonin, etc. I've just finished it and really enjoyed it.

I am reading this right now as a chronically sleep deprived person and it is terrifying - no less than 7 hours for me from now on.

According to the author, with 7 hours of quality sleep, you are still sleep deprived; after 24 days, you would be sleep deprived in amount equivalent to someone not sleeping 1 full night.
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