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Founders who can't code

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Re: Founders who can't code

#101

Post by sirwitti »

nickpinkston wrote: post #54

There's a big difference between the HN stereotype and "real" business people. REAL non-technical co-founders: - Can raise funding and know funders well - Have a massive network of people to tap into - Can cold-call like no-one's business - Know how to negotiate a deal to the point of paranoia - Have deep domain experience and connections - Make plans for the future, but can pivot on a dime - Can talk enough tech to…

you´re right. but real business people also know the technology to some extent already. so, the posted advice is for people who do not have that knowledge yet.

Re: Founders who can't code

#103

Post by TWAndrews »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #95
wpeterson wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 on this. If you learn enough to do a bad job building your prototype, you will learn what you don't know. Right now you don't even know what you don't know. Also, you can't hire someone for a job you know nothing about. Doing (even a poor) job on your prototype will teach you to evaluate a technical co-founder.

That's one scenario. The other is you muddle through, learn a bit and do an OK job pulling together the prototype. Sure it doesn't look exactly right but you can log in, see some records, make some updates and it's all fine in demos and pitches - hell you've even stuck it on the web for friends to poke and prod. You now think it's all straight forward and you're nearly there. The whole this isn't secure, is held toge…

Some CEOs will benefit from this sort of knowledge, others will be damaged by it - there is no simple rule.

Sure, but that's a pretty good test as to whether or not you should work for them.

Re: Founders who can't code

#104

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

TWAndrews wrote: post #103
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one scenario. The other is you muddle through, learn a bit and do an OK job pulling together the prototype. Sure it doesn't look exactly right but you can log in, see some records, make some updates and it's all fine in demos and pitches - hell you've even stuck it on the web for friends to poke and prod. You now think it's all straight forward and you're nearly there. The whole this isn't secure, is held toge…

Some CEOs will benefit from this sort of knowledge, others will be damaged by it - there is no simple rule. Sure, but that's a pretty good test as to whether or not you should work for them.

I see that as an startlingly programmer-centric view of the world. I've worked with some great CEOs and not one of them could code or had any interest in coding. In no instance I have ever experienced have I looked at a CEO, good or bad and thought, the best thing you could do for this company would be to spend six months learning to code.

A good CEO shouldn't have to have every skill used by their organisation and I don't see how coding is any different to accounting, legal, sales or any other skills in this respect.

The mark of a good CEO is to be able to build good teams, be trusting enough to let them do the work they need to and smart enough to see when the wool is being pulled over their eyes.

If you need to be able to code to trust your developers, you've either got the wrong developers or a trust problem, neither of which are likely to be solved by programming.

Re: Founders who can't code

#105

Post by Tichy »

RodgerTheGreat wrote: post #100
Tichy wrote: post #7

I don't think the standard CRUD web app is necessarily what will make an exciting startup. That would more likely be some new twist. Also, I can feel with business types who say it doesn't make sense for them to learn coding. In a way I am in a similar situation, as I am constantly extremely hampered by my lack of design skills. Should I try to become a designer? I admit to trying now and them (decided today to go th…

When you strip away the scalability infrastructure, isn't Twitter just a CRUD app? For some people they would seem to epitomize an "exciting startup".

The problem is that without the scalability infrastructure, it doesn't work. Although to be fair, the Twitter people probably didn't know that in the beginning, either.

So you could have built a crappy prototype, true. However, while Twitter is an exciting startup, a Twitter clone is not (anymore).

Granted, you might be able to build the occasional CRUD prototype for something that could become an interesting startup. I doubt it is true for all kinds of startups, though.

Re: Founders who can't code

#106

Post by noverloop »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #96
noverloop wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just a list of requirements doesn't cut it. There are a lot of ways to fill in requirements, a lot of bad ones and very few good ones. When you ask an author to write a 500 page roman about some dramatic lovestory you have written down in a 5 page requirement document, there are still a lot of things that will be unclear when he is writing it. When the author hits an unknown he can send you an email, make an assumpti…

Here's another idea. Instead of saying that the only way someone could possibly communicate with a developer is on the developer's terms by learning to program, why not employ developers who can communicate with non-developers? Yes it's important to create the best possible working environment for a programmer and give them the best information, but in this example the founder / CEO / visionary is actually the scarce…

I suppose it depends on the main expenses of the companies, optimizing programmer workflow is a very good idea in a tech-centric environment because its a major part of your operational costs. However, if the quality of the technology is not an important business driver then I suppose you can afford to be average about it.

Re: Founders who can't code

#107

Post by joshklein »

mathgladiator wrote: post #64
nickpinkston wrote: post #54

There's a big difference between the HN stereotype and "real" business people. REAL non-technical co-founders: - Can raise funding and know funders well - Have a massive network of people to tap into - Can cold-call like no-one's business - Know how to negotiate a deal to the point of paranoia - Have deep domain experience and connections - Make plans for the future, but can pivot on a dime - Can talk enough tech to…

All those things are awesome after you have a product and or money to hire. The people the comment was targeting were "idea people" who I must conclude are useless without any muscle/blood/sweat to turn an idea into a product.

This claim is the reason so many developers work their asses off to make something, only to realize that no one wants to buy it. You do customer development before you build the product, not after. Step 1: find need, step 2: find out if people will pay $ for it, step 3: make it.

"Real" business people are very good at steps 1 & 2. It's not fair to call them "idea people" if they have useful executional skills to make those things happen.

Re: Founders who can't code

#109

Post by Mistone »

nickpinkston wrote: post #54

There's a big difference between the HN stereotype and "real" business people. REAL non-technical co-founders: - Can raise funding and know funders well - Have a massive network of people to tap into - Can cold-call like no-one's business - Know how to negotiate a deal to the point of paranoia - Have deep domain experience and connections - Make plans for the future, but can pivot on a dime - Can talk enough tech to…

I think Marketing is the big missing piece here.

- Clearly presenting value prop

- Use CustDev framework to test and validate the idea

- Create and manage ad campaigns

- SEO and content marketing

- Conduct user tests

- Getting out of the building

Having a co-founder that focuses on customer development and distribution is super valuable in a startup.

Re: Founders who can't code

#110

Post by wtn »

jasonfried wrote: post #73
wtn wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw Fried speak at Chicago CocoaHeads, a very technically skilled audience, about two years ago. His presentation was almost entirely a sales pitch for 37signals products, which I thought was very condescending and a missed opportunity.

I think you have me confused with someone else. I haven't spoken at a Chicago CocoaHeads conference.

No, you're wrong. It was a CAWUG user group meeting at the Apple Store in Chicago. There is no way in hell I would mistake you for anyone else. DHH was there as well.
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