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The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

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Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#101
post #71
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify is great as long as you don't step out of the narrow scope of the music offered. Try finding anything released <6 months ago and report back. rdio and MOG are even worse in that respect. Grooveshark is the only service that has a decent though a Kazaa-like chaotic catalogue.

It isn't that bad, I would say I'm listening to pretty broad spectrum of music, most of it being not very popular, and Spotify has roughly 75% of what I need. OK, when something that was there disappears after a while then it's seriously irritating, but still, the true selling point of Spotify is the quality of the program itself: it's super slick, fast and has the best interface ever in the category of music players…

..except availability on Spotify of their catalogue is not artists' business but their label's, regardless of degree of indie-ness.

My attitude is the complete opposite: "I can listen to Madonna but not to Tallest Man on Earth, who is from Sweden? Kthxbye".

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#102
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the spreadsheet-style interface pretty uninspired for something as personal as music. The linear list of albums/tracks breaks down very quickly once your library starts growing, and iTunes becomes a confusing, disorientating mess. To Apple's credit, they've been taking baby steps towards more interesting ways of browsing your library with Genius playlists and mixes, but they could and should do so much more.

What are the alternatives, though? I quite like the three column browser for quickly finding music even if I only have a very fuzzy idea of what I would like right now. It scales quite well, even if you have a library with several thousand songs and a few hundred artists. Together with the hybrid cover view it doesn’t even look very much like a spreadsheet. Then there’s the grid view which also has its uses. I especi…

Amarok has some interesting UI features that are really interesting.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#104
post #96
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds naive. The people running the labels are very cynical, and the way they're compensated makes them even more so. They don't have equity. They're motivated by bonuses that come out of this year's revenue. So they're not interested in building stuff. They just want to extract large amounts of money, this year, from whoever they can.

But why can't this change over a period of time as physcab has indicated (who by the way, works/worked for one startup leading the charge)? I believe it impossible for the industry to fail--there will always be people making music. So the big four are either going to have to get with the program (and probably significantly reduce their market cap), or get the hell out the way. This is in someways analogous to what YC…

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Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#105

I don't know if it was just me growing up, but music changed dramatically right after Napster was forced to kill itself. Perhaps someone else can support this: "Music" has never been the same since then. It seemed so much more available, so much more pervasive, more frequently invasive to my life; better than it is now. Like I said, I've grown. But it seems that as the generation behind me moved online in a major way…

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Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#106
This is a throw away account, I would prefer to remain anonymous. I work for a digital music startup and am privy to the kinds of tactics and ridiculousness that the major labels engage in on a regular basis. I should note however that I am a developer, not one of the guys that do the deal cutting as primary focus.

For example; they're well aware DRM does not work, but their insistence on the implementation of DRM is absolutely not focused anymore on the idea that they can stop piracy, but that they can implement market segmentation and suck the profit out of the kind of content that people actually want.

Case in point; digital music startup that charges a subscription for global access to a large library of content from the major labels charges a flat fee to the customer and is charged by the record labels on a pay per play basis, thus the effective margin that the startup makes is a function of (average amount of plays per user / subscription cost per month) - price paid to record label for the play. It turns out that if you do not use DRM for your player the record label leaves you around a 10% per play margin (on quite a hefty monthly subscription fee). With DRM it's much much more profitable for the startup in question, they bank on DRM being so repellent to customers that the startup will pay the much higher rate for DRM free.

They also micromanage the hell out of the details of implementation, for example they have a specific set of "acceptable DRM" standards which you must adhere to to be eligible for the rates in question. There have been negotiations running for months with them just to get approval to run the same kind of streaming clients as the web service provides available as applications to android / iPhone clients. When considering implementing AWS for site infrastructure one of the objections raised by the music companies was that "they don't want their music on the cloud".

Effectively it chokes what it is possible to do in the market, inflates the prices, and makes the entire offering far less appealing. It does seem like they're headed for destruction but they seem just as steadfast in their refusal to amend their course.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#107
Go me thinking, wonder how successful it would be if someone like apple wrote a program to determine people pirating music then sent then somehow got in contact to them with a link to buy, like the Microsoft anti piracy strategy with windows. On the whole would probably be more successful than the lawsuit path.

Another idea for a service, something that scans a computer for pirated music, lets a user select which albums they would like to buy and offers a big discount.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#108
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of startups in the music space that don't directly deliver music to listeners, what about those?

It's hard to say exactly where the line is that you can't cross without getting killed. Industry experts know more precisely. I suspect the fatal combination is (a) a music focused startup that (b) touches label music and (c) makes money.

I suspect this is exactly right. If you make money, they'll send their lawyers in to extort some of it off you.

And so what's happened is that digital delivery of music has largely been via alternative channels such as P2P. And a new generation of music fans is growing up, liking this, and hating the music industry.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#109
post #90
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation isn't entirely hopeless. Even within the most aggressive labels (and by that I mean their legal departments) there are parties who do encourage innovation. These are the people that go to bat for artists and are trying everything imaginable to promote them. They try new advertising campaigns, are experimenting with alternate branding, and moving to the sports business model (ie endorsements). Its unfort…

This sounds naive. The people running the labels are very cynical, and the way they're compensated makes them even more so. They don't have equity. They're motivated by bonuses that come out of this year's revenue. So they're not interested in building stuff. They just want to extract large amounts of money, this year, from whoever they can.

Yes, perhaps thinking the labels changing their ways (or hoping they do) over time is naive. I'll admit that (but I'd like to say optimistic instead).

What the music industry needs is a platform where unsigned artists can go to promote their music without the help of the labels. This platform could probably act like a label, but better serve the artists and users. It would have to garner a lot of eyeballs so it could effectively break artists into the mainstream. It would have to be smart at targeting a specific demographic of listeners so artists could know where to travel and know they can fill auditoriums. Lastly it would have to be a tech company, so the Platform would be in the hands of every listener.

MySpace might be able to do this if they gave up on the social network thing. There certainly is room though for a new company to have this role, but it is going to be a long and painful process. And you certainly shouldn't do it for short term gain.

Re: The Dream Is Over: Music Labels Have Killed Their Digital Future

#110
post #11

I came to this conclusion myself about 6 months ago, after Dalton Caldwell spoke at a YC dinner. I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music, because even the ones that seem to be succeeding (in the sense of not being sued out of existence) are only allowed to live so the labels can suck investors' money through them. But by creating a startup-free zone around themselves, all the lab…

"I realized it was basically hopeless to start startups that touch label music" there's a key word missing in your sentiment. the companies that are streaming music require licenses. there's a number of great companies that are extremely innovative in the music space. the echo nest just raised a $7mil round today. tunecore and indaba are two more varying types that have very nice business models.

from the article: "There will be no new players of significance to enter the business. Investors don’t want to entertain the remotest possibility of funding any start-up that deals with music" once again, it's not fair to think of all startups related to music as synonymous with the struggles of the streaming startups. as one who has been involved in the music space for a couple years, i still believe there is potential as more & more music is being produced --> how do we sift through all the noise?

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